Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS**

[RJDiogenes]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

I think the giant constructs are skitter condos. The aliens are interstellar real estate developers.

 

[stj]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

It wouldn't take much to figure out some evidence that would have pointed clearly towards the Doc as a jackass who could have saved the wife but didn't. What they came up with makes it look like running for the hills was the only sensible option (and why didn't Doc defend himself from Tom's accusations better?)

The whole point to the "shades of grey" shtick is that there is no clear answer, including as to whether the doc could have save the wife. If she had been killed outright, any sensible person would have said so, instead of telling a lie that could be (and was) detected. The aliens start firing. The wife foolishly tries to hang on to the "supplies," (which after all are life-giving necessities.) The heroic action would have been to either help the wife carry them all, including booty to safety, or to have dragged the wife away from the tote, which might just as well have been bait at this point. The doctor just runs. It was the only safe option but leaving the wife to pay for her misjudgment was pretty cold, and unheroic. Do I need to explain why the doctor didn't try blaming the wife for stupid, to the widower?

The aliens killed Tom's wife, and he knows it. He knows that the doctor was not heroic but prudent. He knows that the doctor may very well not have been able to save his wife. Which is exactly why his reactions are so mixed up. He knows it's irrational to blame the doctor so much, and he knows that they have to work together, as all humans must. The scene is a good example of successful "shades of grey" writing precisely because Tom is all over the map while the doctor's bleak rationalizations may have merit. I don't think everything he said was either honest with himself or true but he wasn't being foolish. Those were real issues (in the fictional context.) And I think Tom's parting shot expressed a genuine human response, far better than something stupid like Tom killing the doctor.

Character based conflict that leads to delightful scenes and people pointing guns at someone's head and such would be really, really stupid in the middle of a desperate struggle for survival. The character writing in the show is just fine so far. The dialogue could use some individuation but at least it's free of inappropriate pauses to hear, then applaud, the hero's nifty lines. The series' real problem is in rationalizing space invasion. Without a bunch of operatic characters doing prose arias and stabbing each other, viewers are going to notice violations of common sense much more quickly.

 

[sojourner]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

^The skitters are just oversized sandkings.

 

[FPAlpha]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

Average for me now.. i'm a huge fan of Will Patton and to see him be a typical military asshole makes me sad.

So far nothing has really put me on edge except for the execution scene that shocked me a little bit and i thought that dude who had to witness played his breakdown quite well.

Other than that they need to ramp up the mythology of the series fast.. i can only uphold interest in post-apocalyptic scenery and problems so much without a true story behind it and not just people wanting their kids back and living through this.. this killed Stargate Universe (monotonous, slow paced drama i mean) and i don't want Falling Skies to suffer the same fate.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

The whole point to the "shades of grey" shtick is that there is no clear answer, including as to whether the doc could have save the wife.

Yeah, that's why I was puzzled that they hit upon a scenario that doesn't sound very shades of grey to me. It sounds like Doc did the only sensible thing, and Tom should have realized it.

He knows that the doctor was not heroic but prudent. He knows that the doctor may very well not have been able to save his wife.

He should have known the Doc definitely could not have saved his wife, and the Doc should have stood up for himself better, knowing that he did nothing wrong. Perhaps the intent was something like "Tom is just looking for someone to blame and Doc has such intense survivor guilt that he's willing to take the blame unjustly," but they sure didn't deliver that message in the scene at all. So I figure it was sloppy writing, not some thwarted attempt at subtlety. If they do something similar in a future episode and pull it off better, then I'm willing to revise my opinion upwards. That is certainly the kind of writing they should be striving for, to mitigate the speechifying and the schmaltz.

Speaking of schmaltz, here's what's really bugging me: the music SUCKS! It's terrible, clumsy and obvious. Can't they get Bear McCready to write the score instead?

i'm a huge fan of Will Patton and to see him be a typical military asshole makes me sad.

I've seen inklings that he may be developed away from the cliche level. Characters almost always start off at some kind of simplistic level, because it takes time to add on the layers. I don't ding a show for cliched characters until we're five or six episodes in. By then they should be demonstrating some depth.

 

[bullethead]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

Speaking of schmaltz, here's what's really bugging me: the music SUCKS! It's terrible, clumsy and obvious. Can't they get Bear McCready to write the score instead?

What music? I don't notice any at all, except for maybe one or two of the action sequences.

And what is Bear doing lately? Is he working on games OSTs or what?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

I usually don't notice the music unless it is very good or very bad. Trust me, there's music and it was obnoxious - punctuating the schmaltzy elements with a vengeance.

 

[Vendikarr]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

Okay, I'm betting that the spinal harness grow into the mechs, with the kids inside.

As for the scrap metal, that's a little weird. Maybe there's a major recession on Homeworld and they're all just scavengers out to make a little cash. Or maybe there is no Homeworld and they're just refugees from some apocalypse; they shot their wad pacifying the planet and now they're just trying to build up their resources.

My theory has been that the mechs are controlled by harness kids who've had their limbs amputated. Since the human brain is hard wired to control a bipedal form, that is why the mechs are bipedal. Perhaps the mechs are being built from the scrap metal harvested by the harness kids.

The harness kids appear to be mind controlled in some fashion, and that mech killed those kids without any auditory command.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

I'm goin' with the Grand Unification Goa'uld-Borg Theory (GUG'U-BT for short): the true alien overlords are microscopic parasites that infest the brains and nervous systems of all their subject species. These include humans, skitters, whatever's in the Mechs, and so much more! Their subject species create a hive mind slave army that roams around the cosmos, enslaving ever more planets because, well, that's what microscopic space parasites do.

No idea what's up with the scrap metal. Art project?

 

[stj]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

I don't see how Tom could have known anything definitely. But, sure, on one level he thinks the doctor might have been right and he feels like a fool for still punching the guy. And survivor's guilt makes the doctor's remark about how surviving by running and hiding isn't much to be proud of hurt, and he wants to lash out at the guy who prods the sore spot. Sure it's kind of irrational but the guy's no plaster hero. Nor is the doctor just a wife-killing ass.

Is the doctor a defeatist cynic, or a bleak realist?
Is Tom deluding himself with false hopes, or is his challenge to heroism what's needed for humanity to survive?

Shades of grey doesn't answer, which makes the scene feel unsatisfactory. After a catastrophe like that, there will be some people like the doctor, feeling whipped but clinging to life whatever the cost, and some like Tom, trying to persuade others to heroic struggle (aka speechifying.) Shades of grey isn't rich characterization but it does bring out a downer aspect of the fictional situation, which is good.

The biggest load of schmaltz is the sentimentalization of Pope. I can't heated up too much, since I don't really want to watch a convincing portrayal of a psychopath. Pope will probably never be anything but preposterous but I have low standards and will probably be entertained by the cartooniness of the guy.

It is true that the music isn't very good. Bear McCreary as I recall has moved on to the SyFy Big Time, namely, Eureka. But banging on the drums during "dramatic" moments isn't any better than stroking the violins during the sentimental ones.

It's good that the characters notice and question the scrap metal. The Lost thing where people dont do either was really, really stupid and set a bad example to avoid. But part of this series being successful is that they have to come up with good answers. Hinting at telepathy isn't a good start.

 

[JD]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

I don't know if it's still the case for Season 2, but Bear McCreary did do the music for Season 1 of The Walking Dead.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

So, just watched all three back-to-back without commercials and ... they don't hold up well. The only character I find amusing is Pope and I don't expect that to continue very long. The rest are so boring I literally couldn't remember anyone's name from scene to scene. Noah was just "The Professor" and everyone else was nothing. I didn't care what their names were.

Beyond the rank stupidity shown by all sides in the conflict, there's Child Acting and Emotional Set-pieces and every other tired, TV sci-fi error being made. Where's the fallout from the cities getting nuked just for starters? Why nuke the cities (filled with children) at all and then waste your time collecting handfuls of children randomly from the survivors?

Then again, I don't care what their reason is for using children as slaves and collecting worthless trash when they have interstellar travel. It's going to be stupid.

And for a post-apocalypse, no one seems all that upset about the end of the world. Let's sit around campfires and play games and congregate in large groups, in the open, during the day.

Don't set off a flare, though.

Six months in and what are these people doing? Are they fighting a guerrilla war or trying to live their lives under occupation? Turns out they're doing neither.

The 'fighters' are constantly running away, "because they can't fight them if they don't know how to fight them". Umm, what? You shoot them in the head, they die. You blow them up, they die. You kneecap them and beat them with a shotgun, they can be captured. How is this difficult? Except for the mechs, they're not even ARMED!

Are there any Iraq or Afghanistan war vets around? I bet they might have a few ideas about how to run an asymmetrical war of attrition. Where are the IEDs? The snipers? Hell, once they started rounding up the kids and people found out they couldn't get those harnesses off, where are the suicide bombers?

And the 'eaters' ARE worthless. No true guerrilla force is going to fight effectively if they have to carry twice their number of unarmed baggage around from plushy cul-de-sac to mint-condition high school. Those people should be in hiding away from the fighting in the cities, while platoons or smaller are harassing the shit out the aliens.

God, when I wasn't bored out of my mind by the family angst and long stretches of walking through what looked like sets, whether they were or not, I was filled with contempt at the Hollywood made for TV occupation story.

Two and a half hours of my life (plus this post) is quite enough of my time wasted with this abortion. If you enjoy it, cool, but I really can't see this going very far as it is.

Then again, everything I enjoy gets canceled and shows I hate last a decade with spin-offs, so what do I know?

 

[sojourner]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

To be fair, we don't know if the aliens used actual nukes. I think the term "nuked" was used in the general sense of "destroyed".

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

90 percent of humanity was destroyed.

Taking out the electronics would wack 20 maybe 30 percent in a couple weeks because, people are basically idiots and they'd turn in on themselves or surrender to the skitters in hop of a hot meal.

I just listened to the kid in the first episode again.

The aliens "blew up" all the major cities.

And when Pope lit thatflare he said that the aliens were not going to nuke them, but they would get a good bombing in response to making a target of themselves.

The ships believe in proportionate responses.

 

[Star Wolf]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

Feed me its my human right? Meanwhile 2/3rds or remaining humanity still won't fight or even carry a machinegun ammo belt for a fighter weighed down with 4 guns. We are lead to believe all the young vets and reservist went on banzai charges.

 

[bullethead]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

Feed me its my human right? Meanwhile 2/3rds or remaining humanity still won't fight or even carry a machinegun ammo belt for a fighter weighed down with 4 guns. We are lead to believe all the young vets and reservist went on banzai charges.

I wouldn't be surprised if the major military bases were just bombed into oblivion, plus we are talking about people in Massachusetts, which doesn't have many military bases (if any), who are a subgroup of a much larger initial survivor group that was being dispersed prior to the pilot. It's possible that all the other groups got what few reservists and vets were on hand and the Professor's group got stuck with older vets and civvies pressed into duty.

 

[FreezeC77]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

Feed me its my human right? Meanwhile 2/3rds or remaining humanity still won't fight or even carry a machinegun ammo belt for a fighter weighed down with 4 guns. We are lead to believe all the young vets and reservist went on banzai charges.

I wouldn't be surprised if the major military bases were just bombed into oblivion, plus we are talking about people in Massachusetts, which doesn't have many military bases (if any), who are a subgroup of a much larger initial survivor group that was being dispersed prior to the pilot. It's possible that all the other groups got what few reservists and vets were on hand and the Professor's group got stuck with older vets and civvies pressed into duty.

Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but from the snippets of the 'invasion' talked about do we know about how long it was between the aliens arriving and the attacks? Enough time to have called up the national guard and what not and have them be ready to deploy (stationed on military bases) and then those military bases be destroyed by the aliens (along with the personnel who were there)?

 

[Star Wolf]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

It doesn't work like that, give the militaries of the world some credit. If the reservist were at the major bases drawing heavy equipment the regulars would have been well dispearsed. Also after 10 years of war there are a lot of young vets and add to the Cold War vets when the military was many times larger

 

[Caliburn24]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

I'm an Iraq veteran, earned my CAB in Diyala a few years ago. Less than 2% of the American population will(currently) ever serve in the military, of that number perhaps 10% might see combat(less as the Iraq/Afghan vets get phased out). We're looking at a pool of perhaps 300,000-500,000 soldiers with combat experience and experience in counterinsurgency warfare. Kill off 90%(was that figure mentioned explicitly in the show already? Can't remember) of that number and you're left with maybe 50,000 veterans. Plus the Cold War warriors, old Vietnam vets and whoever else. So there should be a few of us running around.

But the show's location is well picked in that regard. Ft. Drum and the 10th Mountain Division would be the nearest major combat formation. And Mass. is not exactly a sought after destination for ex-military types. Not like Texas for example, where you have veterans everywhere.

Being ex-Army I will say that pretty much every military aspect of the show so far is laughable and silly but it is Hollywood writers trying to do current day characters in an alien invasion. The writers are a little out of their league. I'll give them a pass on that stuff for now. But they have a wonderful writing opportunity to show the characters face the realities of war and begin to mature into veteran badasses. I doubt the show will reach that level of writing, but I'll give it a chance.

A far more serious problem for the show, from a reality check standpoint is the logistical situation. My Cavalry Troop in Iraq(MTOE strength of 130 soldiers) had to run logpacks every 1-2 days to keep us supplied. A full 5-ton cargo truck of food and water, a 500 gallon water buffalo, plus a 2500 gallon HEMTT fuel tanker.

In the show, lets assume they have some clean water sources. And they don't need that much fuel for their few vehicles. But food? Yeah, a huge issue, particularly for Mass. which is not really prime farmland. Grocery stores only stock enough food for perhaps a week. Even if 90% of the population died instantly(which did not happen) stocks of food in Mass. would have been exhausted months ago. There is no infrastructure bringing in new supplies of food, no gardening(so far). Hunting as Pope suggested, isn't going to work for 300 people. Our heroes should be starving already, badly starving.

Are skitters edible? Maybe paprika works to season them.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Falling Skies 1.2 "Prisoner of War" discussion/comments **SPOILERS

I don't see how Tom could have known anything definitely.

Simple logic. Tom said he found his wife's body still holding her end of a bag that was too heavy for her to carry. How could that possibly be the case unless a) she was killed instantly, before either she or Doc could react or b) she is too stupid to drop the bag and run at the first indication of attack?

Either way, Doc is off the hook. He's not responsible for safeguarding a nitwit or a corpse.

The writers didn't think their scenario through sufficiently to realize that it was communicating the opposite of their intent. They should have erased it and devised a more appropriately ambiguous one. Hopefully this is just an isolated lapse and not a worrysome sign of general sloppiness.

I wouldn't be surprised if the major military bases were just bombed into oblivion,

They mentioned this in the voiceover at the beginning or somewhere early on: the aliens were smart enough to wipe out all the militaries first.

Are skitters edible? Maybe paprika works to season them.