Fade In: The Writing of Star Trek: Insurrection

[kkozoriz1]

Mind you, I haven't actually read the book; I'm getting my info from online searches and what I've heard over the years.

http://manybooks.net/titles/twainmaretext93hfinn12.html

Here ya go. Pick a format from the drop down on the right and read it. It's in may electronic formats including epub and pdf. And it's free. No excuse now.

Hahahahaha!

Thank you, sir!

You should definitely read it. I mean, it's Mark Twain, for Pete's sake. I'm amazed you didn't read Huckleberry Finn in high school.

Nope.

I do recall reading Catcher in the Rye...and that's about it. (And maybe the Autobiography of Malcolm X)...

You're quite welcome. One great thing about electronic publishing is how easy it is to get copies of books that are in the public domain. You may not want to shell out five or ten dollars to pick up a copy but if you can get it for free, why wouldn't you?


I didn't read it in school either. Of course I went to school in Canada so we had a different selection of books. I did read it while I was still in school though, just not as an assignment.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

You're quite welcome. One great thing about electronic publishing is how easy it is to get copies of books that are in the public domain. You may not want to shell out five or ten dollars to pick up a copy but if you can get it for free, why wouldn't you?


I didn't read it in school either. Of course I went to school in Canada so we had a different selection of books. I did read it while I was still in school though, just not as an assignment.

 

[Leandar]

Well, being 'black' that would be very obvious to me the treatment of African-Americans during the 1930s...60s... what have you. However, 'Bada Boom' was a holodeck recreation; but 'Far Beyond the Stars' was actually another planet? (It's been awhile since I've seen the episode).

No, it was meant to be 1950's Earth. It was a vision for Sisko from the Prophets.

Interestingly, Guinan and Geordi were in late 19th century (in the TNG episode 'Time's Arrow,') and nothing was said about their color. It was even stated that Guinan traveled to that same time period, IIRC.

Well as far as Guinan goes, it's possible that her wealth and affluence may have knocked some of that out as far as she goes because people like to be around those that are rich. Geordi... I dunno...

Btw, I don't know where this is going in relation to the thread topic of the horrid Insurrection...

The less said about Insurrection, the better. lol

Oh, btw. Feel free to toss the PM anytime you want. I'm not losing the file.

 

[donners22]

Dammit, why would work block that site?

Can't wait to get home and obtain it.

 

[PsychoPere]

Interestingly, Guinan and Geordi were in late 19th century (in the TNG episode 'Time's Arrow,') and nothing was said about their color. It was even stated that Guinan traveled to that same time period, IIRC.

Well as far as Guinan goes, it's possible that her wealth and affluence may have knocked some of that out as far as she goes because people like to be around those that are rich. Geordi... I dunno...

I just watched "Time's Arrow" a couple days ago. Geordi's skin color may not have overtly been mentioned, but it was subtly referenced.

[...] He spots the cane which Geordi holds.

POLICEMAN
Where'd you get that? That's a gentleman's cane.

He takes it from Geordi [...]

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Well, being 'black' that would be very obvious to me the treatment of African-Americans during the 1930s...60s... what have you. However, 'Bada Boom' was a holodeck recreation; but 'Far Beyond the Stars' was actually another planet? (It's been awhile since I've seen the episode).

No, it was meant to be 1950's Earth. It was a vision for Sisko from the Prophets.

Interestingly, Guinan and Geordi were in late 19th century (in the TNG episode 'Time's Arrow,') and nothing was said about their color. It was even stated that Guinan traveled to that same time period, IIRC.

Well as far as Guinan goes, it's possible that her wealth and affluence may have knocked some of that out as far as she goes because people like to be around those that are rich. Geordi... I dunno...

Btw, I don't know where this is going in relation to the thread topic of the horrid Insurrection...

The less said about Insurrection, the better. lol

Oh, btw. Feel free to toss the PM anytime you want. I'm not losing the file.

Cool....

Interestingly, Guinan and Geordi were in late 19th century (in the TNG episode 'Time's Arrow,') and nothing was said about their color. It was even stated that Guinan traveled to that same time period, IIRC.

Well as far as Guinan goes, it's possible that her wealth and affluence may have knocked some of that out as far as she goes because people like to be around those that are rich. Geordi... I dunno...

I just watched "Time's Arrow" a couple days ago. Geordi's skin color may not have overtly been mentioned, but it was subtly referenced.

[...] He spots the cane which Geordi holds.

POLICEMAN
Where'd you get that? That's a gentleman's cane.

He takes it from Geordi [...]

Interesting...

 

[TGTheodore]

Anyway, the point is that Clemens was well-known for his involvement with the abolitionist and equal-rights movements and other social causes. Notably, the famed emancipationist Henry Huttleston Rogers became friends with Clemens in the same year "Time's Arrow" takes place. So even if Clemens and his compatriots weren't as racially enlightened as we are, that doesn't change the fact that it's logical that they would've been the ones most likely to associate with Guinan.

By contrast, the prologue of the five-novel series I was about to pitch to Marco a few years back began with Guinan on the run in the South from bloodhounds and a lynch mob of slaveowners just prior to the Civil War.

It certainly depends on where one is as well as when one is.

Er ... WHAT was this thread about again?

--Ted

 

[Captain Robert April]

Insurrection.

 

[Therin of Andor]

to a lesser degree Abrams, didn't do their homework.

Huh? Abrams surrounded himself with pro ST fans - and was at the premiere of ST:TMP in 1979. He came at ST asking himself why "Star Wars" movies were seemingly still more appealing to a mass audience than most "Star Trek" movies. Sounds like plenty of homework to me, since he succeeded beyond Paramount's (and many fans') expectations.

 

[Destructor]

It truly amazes me how many fans (at least those posting on the topic):

1) Ignore all the canon evidence that the Federation is breaking it's own rules in Insurrection.

2) don't seem to care if they are or not. They're intellectually about a half-step away from Mao, Pol Pot or Stalin in their absolutist "greater good" mantra.

I completely, completely agree. There seems something inherently contradictory in being both a fan of Star Trek and someone who thinks that the forced relocation of one culture to benefit another culture is a-okay. I need your child's organs to save the lives of two other children, can I slaughter your child, please? It's mathematically sensible! What a great moral for a Trek film.

 

[Captain Robert April]

to a lesser degree Abrams, didn't do their homework.

Huh? Abrams surrounded himself with pro ST fans -

And when one of those pro-fans tried using his prior knowledge to establish a baseline of comparison, he was promptly shown the door, so that means exactly squat.

 

[Bones2]

to a lesser degree Abrams, didn't do their homework.

Huh? Abrams surrounded himself with pro ST fans -

And when one of those pro-fans tried using his prior knowledge to establish a baseline of comparison, he was promptly shown the door, so that means exactly squat.

Who do you mean?

 

[ST-One]

to a lesser degree Abrams, didn't do their homework.

Huh? Abrams surrounded himself with pro ST fans -

And when one of those pro-fans tried using his prior knowledge to establish a baseline of comparison, he was promptly shown the door, so that means exactly squat.

We still only have heard about this from Eaves.
We haven't heard anything directly from Mandel nor from Abrams.

About 'Fade In'... Haven't finished it yet, but too me it seems that this film was still-born from the beginning simply because Piller felt so comfortable in the 'Box'.
It's interesting to know that Star Trek is exactly the kind of film Steward would have liked to play in.

 

[JoeZhang]

This Eaves thing has been mentioned a few times on this thread and I looked and never managed to find any actual quotes or sources, so can someone link to one?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^The source for both the Eaves statements (about Mandel and about the producers not wanting former insiders working on the new movie) IS Eaves on his blog. It's been awhile, so the relevent posts are burried in his archive somewhere.

 

[JoeZhang]

^The source for both the Eaves statements (about Mandel and about the producers not wanting former insiders working on the new movie) IS Eaves on his blog. It's been awhile, so the relevent posts are burried in his archive somewhere.

I've looked and looked and the only thing I can find is:

JJ’s writers, crew, his own creativity and the bringing on of Leonard Nimoy created a brilliant cornerstone to embark on this new adventure. faced with redesigning something that has deep roots in a whole new way, yet be respectful to the original idea was definitely what was seen on the big screen last night. I can see now why the rule was created that no one from the previous shows were invited back to be a part of this one,,, I am still amazed and very thankful that that rule was broken in my case and I was allowed to be a part of this film. without giving a full fledged review here is what is coming….

 

[JarodRussell]

Huh? Abrams surrounded himself with pro ST fans -

And when one of those pro-fans tried using his prior knowledge to establish a baseline of comparison, he was promptly shown the door, so that means exactly squat.

We still only have heard about this from Eaves.

LOL, yeah, Eaves is lying about it.

 

[JoeZhang]

And when one of those pro-fans tried using his prior knowledge to establish a baseline of comparison, he was promptly shown the door, so that means exactly squat.

We still only have heard about this from Eaves.

LOL, yeah, Eaves is lying about it.

Well so far nobody has been able to provide any evidence that Eaves ever said this to start with - maybe you can help?

 

[ST-One]

We still only have heard about this from Eaves.

LOL, yeah, Eaves is lying about it.

Well so far nobody has been able to provide any evidence that Eaves ever said this to start with - maybe you can help?

I've found the comment from Eaves (Shaw posted it here last year; it's no longer on Eaves' blog)

John Eaves, March 16, 2009 at 1:15 pm
"I did make it on the new one!!! My friend Geoffry Mandell and I were some of the only folks that worked on any of the previous Treks to get on the new one. One day Geoff had to scale the Enterprise and he did so by picturing the new ship in comparison to the previous ships,, He was let go the next day for being to attached and close to the older shows,,,,, I stayed very very quiet after that dark day I can tell you!!! HAAAA!"​

BTW: I never said or even insinuated that Eaves lied. It's just that we only know (if even that) one side of the story.

 

[JoeZhang]

Ah thanks for that!