F*** you Disney!

[scotpens]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Jesus, have you people never seen Robin Hood from 1973. Easily Disney's worst animated movie.

Spoken like someone who's never seen the Fox and the Hound or, dare I say it, Oliver and Company.

No love for Oliver and Company? How can you hate a movie that has Bette Midler at her campy best, doing the voice of a pampered show poodle?

 

[Tiberius]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

I'm not here to say that's right or anything, but according to US law you do not own that movie. You own the tape, but Disney still owns that movie that's on that tape. Think of it as 'long-term borrowing.'

So you're working from a flawed assumption. You don't own the movie. End of story.

So hey, go ahead get mad about that...but my point is that you should be ticked off at Congress for making that the case, not at Disney for simply enforcing the law.

So you are purchasing the right to watch the movie.

So if I buy a DVD, I purchase the physical medium as well as the right to watch the movie on that DVD.

Let's say I lose the DVD, or it snaps.

Do I still have the right to watch that movie?

If yes, then why should I pay again to buy another copy? Sure, I may be buying the physical medium again, but shouldn't I get a discount because I don't need to buy the right to watch the movie. I already have that from the last time.

But if I have to pay full price, doesn't that mean I am revoking the original license to watch the movie and buying another license? So shouldn't I get a refund on the original license?

 

[OsmiumJohnnycake]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Even VHS are copyprotected (yep, even the oldest ones).

I don't understand this, do you mean even the earliest Disney VHS tapes? Or that even the earliest VHS can't be transferred to a DVD (wouldn't know this, never tried)?

In the early 80s, my family would sometimes rent an extra VCR (we owned one too) along with movies we really liked and make copies for ourselves. Seemed pretty innocent at the time and the copies looked fine. We also taped a lot of stuff off HBO and saved it. This seemed to be a very common practice in the 80s and I don't recall there being a stigma attached to it. You go in a normal family home and they have a bunch of copies of movies they taped.

The internet did change the magnitude of the whole thing, and at least when my family did it we were paying for a movie rental or a cable subscription service, not just clicking on a link, but it's odd how there was never a hint of wrongdoing. My parents were pretty straight-laced, too. Wouldn't even take bar soap from a hotel room.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

A couple of years ago, I realised I needed room, so I decided to transfer all my VHS tapes to disc, and to put the tapes up in the loft, bin them, or give them to charity.

I bought me a combi unit, built in HDD, VHS and DVD, with a warning from the retailer and the manual that pre-recorded tapes would have macrovision on, and would not in any circumstance copy over. It wasn't that big a deal, considering that I may have had 300 or 400 pre-recorded tapes, but I still had as many tapes that I had recorded myself. Six months later, all those home tapings transferred, I tried a pre-recorded tape just for the sake of trying...

It worked.

It turns out that for most of the companies, Macrovision was one big fake out, a smokescreen, and most of the tapes I had had no problems when I backed them up to DVD before finding a spot for them in the loft.

I only had problems with four tapes. Two Disney tapes, Aladdin and The Jungle Book, and The Lawnmower Man. These three were pre-records that were copy protected, just as all the companies claimed every tape was. The other tape was one that I had recorded myself, the original pilot of Babylon 5, with the soundtrack from Stuart Copeland, but which wasn't released on DVD. When I taped it, for some reason the broadcaster piped a Pay Per View signal along with the feed, and it wouldn't let me copy it. So now I have grand total of four tapes on my shelf.

And yes, Disney suck.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I still have a working VHS machine from before Macrovision became standard. It suppresses the overvoltage pulses and any copy protection flags inserted during the vertical blanking interval (VBI) that are intended to confuse the automatic gain control of a video recorder or otherwise block recording in firmware. I wouldn't need additional hardware to perform reframing or VBI suppression. However, VHS video is a such poor quality signal source that I decided to wait for the DVDs or Blu-rays of the material to become available to buy. It just didn't seem worth the effort to create rips of the tapes.

 

[23skidoo]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

I don't understand this, do you mean even the earliest Disney VHS tapes? Or that even the earliest VHS can't be transferred to a DVD (wouldn't know this, never tried)?

Not every movie, but around 1983 or 1984 the companies got wise to people doing what you describe below and this thing called Macrovision (there were other brand names too) were introduced. Newer VCRs would encounter a signal on the tape that would not physically prevent them from recording, but what they recorded was usually gibbled in some ways. Either the top half of the tape image would be distorted, the sound would fail, or you'd end up getting the same sort of image as if you'd tried to record a scrambled TV signal (unless you were there it's impossible to really describe to younger people what a scrambled TV signal looked like in the pre-digital cable age back in the days when televisions came with a "vertical image hold" control).

Problem was this also caused one of the earliest examples of "technological improvements" screwing over holders of old technology, as older VCRs often couldn't play Macrovision'ed videos properly. The most common effect I noticed was the top quarter of the image would skew, almost as if the tape were damaged. My dad figured that was our old (1982) VCR attempting to convert the Macrovision signal into a picture. When we bought a few VCR a couple years later the problem went away.

In the early 80s, my family would sometimes rent an extra VCR (we owned one too) along with movies we really liked and make copies for ourselves. Seemed pretty innocent at the time and the copies looked fine. We also taped a lot of stuff off HBO and saved it. This seemed to be a very common practice in the 80s and I don't recall there being a stigma attached to it.

Oh yes there was. Around 1983 my parents went to rent a few movies from a first-generation video rental store (back when you had to pay membership fees and sometimes order what you wanted to rent from a catalog). They also wanted to tape a few TV shows so they bought a couple blank VHS tapes. And the store accused them of doing what you described and banned them for life, based solely on that. The store lasted a year or so more and then closed, so they must have knee-jerked and banned their entire client base.

One thing to remember, too. In the early 1980s professionally pre-recorded movies sold for between $100 and $150 - these are in 1980s dollars. When Star Wars a New Hope came out on VHS my parents talked about budgeting in order to justify the cost of buying our own copy. There was no such thing as a "pre-recorded sales" market. I never actually owned my very own copy of a movie until the late 80s when the price bubble burst. And even then they were still pretty expensive to buy new and most of what I bought at the time were from video rental places selling off their back stock.

Today, while I acknowledge lots of people have little money to spend on things like DVDs and Blu-rays, fact remains they're still a heck of a lot more affordable than even renting at times. And if you can't afford to pay $24.95 for Tron Legacy when it first came out, odds are in 6 months Wal-Mart will have it on for $10. I just upgraded my DVD copy of Mad Men season 1 to Blu-ray for $19 Cdn. at Wal-Mart. When the 8 seasons of Red Dwarf came out on DVD they were overly expensive (something like $40 each), but now HMV here in Canada is selling them for $14.95 each.

What I'm getting at is, in theory, the incentive to record a copy of a film is less from a financial perspective because - box sets notwithstanding - you don't see 90-minute movies being sold for $150 anymore.

I will agree that the whole "Disney vault" idea is stupid. How many millions they've lost by not having their product available full-time is impossible to calculate. And it's going to bite them because they honestly may not have a physical venue on which to release Snow White the next time it comes out of the vault.

Alex

 

[Mr. Adventure]

60 Minutes on Video Piracy ... in 1979!!!!

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZtfEDyTXiU[/yt]

 

[Servo]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

^Yeah, you want to be angry at someone? Try Sony. They are using the DMCA as an end run around people modifying Sony hardware. After it has been purchased and taken home.

Erm, no they're not. They're going after people like GeoHot and Graf_Chokolo for modifying the software. You may own the hardware when you buy a PS3, but you license the software that runs it.

Besides, GeoHot already settled with Sony at the end of March, and he lost out completely. Despite claiming he'd go all the way against Sony, and despite saying he'd never settle with them unless they reinstate OtherOS and apologise for removing it in the first place, he came away with none of that. Instead, if he's ever caught hacking a Sony product he'll get a fine of $100,000, and if he's ever caught distributing anything to do with hacking a Sony product he'll get a fine of $250,000.

His perks of the settlement? None. Well, aside from getting away with what he's already done, but seeing as the damage was already done in the first place, Sony continuing the suit would have done nothing to reverse that anyway.

 

[Pingfah]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

We were allowed to record albums we had purchased to cassette tapes, and I fail to see how this should be any different.

And don't think that didn't freak the recording industry right the fuck out. Hence all the fancy copy protection.

Hah, yeah I remember when Record companies were calling the cassette the death of the music industry

Still, worth bearing in mind that even if you are legally entitled to make a copy of something for your own use, that doesn't mean the copyright holder is not legally entitled to put copy protection on it.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

^Yeah, you want to be angry at someone? Try Sony. They are using the DMCA as an end run around people modifying Sony hardware. After it has been purchased and taken home.

Erm, no they're not. They're going after people like GeoHot and Graf_Chokolo for modifying the software. You may own the hardware when you buy a PS3, but you license the software that runs it.

Besides, GeoHot already settled with Sony at the end of March, and he lost out completely. Despite claiming he'd go all the way against Sony, and despite saying he'd never settle with them unless they reinstate OtherOS and apologise for removing it in the first place, he came away with none of that. Instead, if he's ever caught hacking a Sony product he'll get a fine of $100,000, and if he's ever caught distributing anything to do with hacking a Sony product he'll get a fine of $250,000.

His perks of the settlement? None. Well, aside from getting away with what he's already done, but seeing as the damage was already done in the first place, Sony continuing the suit would have done nothing to reverse that anyway.

Yeah, he totally folded to save his own ass. Not that he had much of a chance going up against Sony's deep pockets in the first place.

 

[Servo]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Yeah, he totally folded to save his own ass. Not that he had much of a chance going up against Sony's deep pockets in the first place.

Yeah, even with all those people donating money to his legal defense fund (read: trip to South America). Wonder if he'll be offering any refunds.

In related news; Anonymous sure got bored quickly.

 

[bigdaddy]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Even VHS are copyprotected (yep, even the oldest ones).

I don't understand this, do you mean even the earliest Disney VHS tapes? Or that even the earliest VHS can't be transferred to a DVD (wouldn't know this, never tried)?

In the early 80s, my family would sometimes rent an extra VCR (we owned one too) along with movies we really liked and make copies for ourselves. Seemed pretty innocent at the time and the copies looked fine. We also taped a lot of stuff off HBO and saved it. This seemed to be a very common practice in the 80s and I don't recall there being a stigma attached to it. You go in a normal family home and they have a bunch of copies of movies they taped.

The internet did change the magnitude of the whole thing, and at least when my family did it we were paying for a movie rental or a cable subscription service, not just clicking on a link, but it's odd how there was never a hint of wrongdoing. My parents were pretty straight-laced, too. Wouldn't even take bar soap from a hotel room.

That's actually how I transfered Follow That Bird, it was taped from HBO when HBO used to be a kid friendly network. All Disney is doing is asking people to burn the DVD off their computers.

Today, while I acknowledge lots of people have little money to spend on things like DVDs and Blu-rays, fact remains they're still a heck of a lot more affordable than even renting at times. And if you can't afford to pay $24.95 for Tron Legacy when it first came out, odds are in 6 months Wal-Mart will have it on for $10. I just upgraded my DVD copy of Mad Men season 1 to Blu-ray for $19 Cdn. at Wal-Mart. When the 8 seasons of Red Dwarf came out on DVD they were overly expensive (something like $40 each), but now HMV here in Canada is selling them for $14.95 each.


I will agree that the whole "Disney vault" idea is stupid. How many millions they've lost by not having their product available full-time is impossible to calculate. And it's going to bite them because they honestly may not have a physical venue on which to release Snow White the next time it comes out of the vault.

Disney DVDs never drop in price. in fact they are cheapest the week of release. Disney gives out coupons and you can get new releases for $10ish instead of $20-$25. The Nightmare Before Christmas is still out and is still $25.

We were allowed to record albums we had purchased to cassette tapes, and I fail to see how this should be any different.

And don't think that didn't freak the recording industry right the fuck out. Hence all the fancy copy protection.

Hah, yeah I remember when Record companies were calling the cassette the death of the music industry

Still, worth bearing in mind that even if you are legally entitled to make a copy of something for your own use, that doesn't mean the copyright holder is not legally entitled to put copy protection on it.

I'm not sure if it was a joke or not, but a few years back supposedly some music studio asshole came out and said that radios were technically illegal because the studio isn't getting paid any money from it being played. Completely out of touch with reality.

If I could sing I would go the Youtube route and just sell the music myself, there is no need for studios anymore.

 

[OsmiumJohnnycake]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Problem was this also caused one of the earliest examples of "technological improvements" screwing over holders of old technology, as older VCRs often couldn't play Macrovision'ed videos properly. The most common effect I noticed was the top quarter of the image would skew, almost as if the tape were damaged. My dad figured that was our old (1982) VCR attempting to convert the Macrovision signal into a picture. When we bought a few VCR a couple years later the problem went away.

Well I can only speak for myself. My parents had one VCR, bought in the early 80s. They handed it down to me and I used it until 1997 or 98 when I bought my first DVD player. I rented a lot of movies in that time and never had a problem viewing them. Of course rental tapes would dirty up my machine a lot and I had to open it up and manually clean the heads with q-tips, but I never had to upgrade to a new VCR to watch movies properly.

Edit to add: We did buy a very few original VHS tapes. They may have been priced $100-150 at msrp, but you could often get them closer to $80-90.

I also worked in a music store in the 90s. Apparently in the 80s the owner had an LP rental thing going but was sued by the record companies and had to shut the rental aspect down.

 

[Arrqh]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Yeah, he totally folded to save his own ass. Not that he had much of a chance going up against Sony's deep pockets in the first place.

Considering the time and financial burden that fighting Sony would have taken, I don't blame him at all for settling. It's really easy to want other people to fight on principle...

Yeah, even with all those people donating money to his legal defense fund (read: trip to South America).

That's a load of hooey. The trip was paid for before Sony brought the lawsuit and there was a lot of court time before the settlement.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Yeah, he totally folded to save his own ass. Not that he had much of a chance going up against Sony's deep pockets in the first place.

Considering the time and financial burden that fighting Sony would have taken, I don't blame him at all for settling. It's really easy to want other people to fight on principle...

Yeah, even with all those people donating money to his legal defense fund (read: trip to South America).

That's a load of hooey. The trip was paid for before Sony brought the lawsuit and there was a lot of court time before the settlement.

Right on all counts, as usual.

 

[Servo]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Considering the time and financial burden that fighting Sony would have taken, I don't blame him at all for settling. It's really easy to want other people to fight on principle...

All of which would have been fine had he not thrown down the gauntlet to Sony on several ocassions. Basically, he tried to play up to the internet to gain support and make out that we should all help him stand up to evil Sony, and then he realised how much work was involved, so he bugged out and took any integrity he may have had down with him.

That's a load of hooey. The trip was paid for before Sony brought the lawsuit and there was a lot of court time before the settlement.

Yeah, I was being tongue-in-cheek with it really and making light of the fact that he begged people for money to help defend himself against the evil corporation, and then proptly shat himself and folded.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Considering the time and financial burden that fighting Sony would have taken, I don't blame him at all for settling. It's really easy to want other people to fight on principle...

All of which would have been fine had he not thrown down the gauntlet to Sony on several ocassions. Basically, he tried to play up to the internet to gain support and make out that we should all help him stand up to evil Sony, and then he realised how much work was involved, so he bugged out and took any integrity he may have had down with him.

That's a load of hooey. The trip was paid for before Sony brought the lawsuit and there was a lot of court time before the settlement.

Yeah, I was being tongue-in-cheek with it really and making light of the fact that he begged people for money to help defend himself against the evil corporation, and then proptly shat himself and folded.

I imagine once his lawyer(s) told him he would lose this case horribly if it went to trial, he panicked and caved. Sony could've ruined him for the rest of his life.

What Sony wins out of this is a PR victory, as everyone can see how merciful they were toward Mr. Hotz. "We didn't even send him to jail or take his life savings!"

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

Yeah, I don't get too much of the argument here. Disney copy-protected their DVDs. So? They have that "right" to protect their intellectual property. It's stupid that copy-protection is so pervasive now when for most VHS tapes it wasn't a big problem and could be worked around.

But in the digital age it is a problem. Disney wants to protect their property.

Want to be pissed at Disney? I am. Be pissed at them for how they're handling/handled the release of the Tron DVDs.

What was the matter with how they handled the TRON DVDs? Letting the previous two versions go out of print before this latest update?

I don't see a problem with the tapes being copy-protected. You bought the VHS version of it and that's what you've got.

 

[Servo]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

I imagine once his lawyer(s) told him he would lose this case horribly if it went to trial, he panicked and caved. Sony could've ruined him for the rest of his life.

To be honest, he was being so petulant about the whole thing, I'd have had no sympathy if Sony had ruined him. As it stands, they have pretty much ruined his hacking life, at least as far as Sony products go.

What Sony wins out of this is a PR victory, as everyone can see how merciful they were toward Mr. Hotz. "We didn't even send him to jail or take his life savings!"

Hehe, the DDOS kings Anonymous don't see it that way. They released another video today promising more ineffectual attacks on Sony.

 

[Davros]

Re: Fuck you Disney!

No love for The Jungle Book?

Easily my least favorite Disney movie.

Lady and the Tramp? Dumbo? Pinnochio? Fantasia??? Cmon, Fantasia???????

Fantasia is Amazing. Possibly the best thing Walt Disney ever did.