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Explaining away hiding a giant space ship in the water....

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Those movies depict people standing in the open air near flowing lava, don't they, as opposed to being surrounded on all sides by it? I suppose they might think not being in an enclosed pit would be easier to endure, but then they'd be wrong.

Nahh, it's just that most filmmakers don't pay any attention to the physical properties of air such as convection and pressure. I think there's a scene in Independence Day where a dog barely escapes a gigantic fireball explosion in an underground traffic tunnel and is completely unaffected by the heat, or by any kind of shock wave. (And conversely, explosions in space always have shock waves even though there's no atmosphere to propagate a shock.)
 
(And conversely, explosions in space always have shock waves even though there's no atmosphere to propagate a shock.)

What would they look like?

(Trek can always write it off by saying it's due to the properties of some chemical or device that doesn't exist outside of Trek, can't it?)
 
What would they look like?

It's not about how they look (aside from the stupid 2-D "ripple of light" shock wave effect that The Undiscovered Country pioneered), but about how spaceships in sci-fi are rocked by turbulence when an explosion goes off near them, because that's what we expect to happen from Earthly experience. Without a medium to propagate shock, the only hazards from a nearby explosion would be debris (if the object exploding isn't completely vaporized) and radiation. Although in one or two books I've rationalized the "blast turbulence" as the result of the radiative heating flash-vaporizing the surface layer of paint or coating on the hull, which would have an effect equivalent to a small explosion going off on the hull (because an explosion is the result of a solid instantly vaporizing and expanding with force).

Although it's true that explosions in vacuum would not look like the roiling fireballs so beloved in movies and TV, because that roiling is the result of fluid mixing as the gas and dust expand into the surrounding air. Without air to mix with, you'd just have a more or less spherical cloud of gas and debris expanding and dissipating swiftly, and of course without oxygen you'd have no fire. A nuclear or antimatter explosion would be a blinding instantaneous flash followed by a similar expanding sphere of vapor, though it might expand too quickly to be noticeable. Most of the prolonged blast effect of a nuke in atmosphere is a function of a large mass of the surrounding air being superheated to plasma and forcibly displacing the air around it as it expands, so without that air, the blast is brief and less intense, with radiation being the main hazard.

Most real explosions don't look like those roiling orange fireballs, which filmmakers prefer because they're fairly weak, low-energy blasts, meaning both that they're relatively safe to work with and that they burn through the reactants slowly enough to be visually impressive. High-energy explosions, the really dangerous ones, are such fast and powerful reactions that the fireball might last only a split-second before the reactants are consumed or blown far enough apart to stop reacting, so you'd get just a brief flash of light, a powerful spherical shock wave rippling the air and expanding at the speed of sound, and a massive cloud of smoke and dust. They'd often set off explosions like that on Mythbusters, and they'd have to advance through the video frame-by-frame for the fireball to be visible in just one or two frames, and that's with a high-speed camera.


(Trek can always write it off by saying it's due to the properties of some chemical or device that doesn't exist outside of Trek, can't it?)

No, because again, most of the effects we associate with explosions, like fireballs and shock waves, are caused by or occur within the air around the explosion, so they're independent of whatever reactants create it. A shock wave is essentially a very powerful sound wave, so there's no shock wave without an atmosphere. (There is a diffuse interstellar medium that does create turbulence and propagate shock waves from things like stellar eruptions and supernovae, but only on a very large scale, and it's way too thin to have any noticeable effect on the scale of a starship.)
 
Well, I have to add my two cents here.

The reason for being underwater was there in the movie, just not spelled out slowly. They had to be in close proximity, but had to stay hidden from the natives and they couldn't beam from space. As to the whole starship in water argument, the Enterprise literally orbits a black hole in the first film and Voyager flies through FLUIDIC space.

And shockwaves can and do travel through space:
https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/can-you-have-a-shock-wave-in-space
 
And shockwaves can and do travel through space:

Yes, I mentioned that already in my last paragraph -- you can have a shock wave that will leave a detectable signature in the interstellar medium and affect cosmic gas and dust clouds, but what you will not get is the kind of shock wave that will rock a starship and send its crew flying out of their chairs if an explosion happens in the vicinity. The medium propagating the shock is so diffuse that it's effectively a vacuum on the scale of a starship; only a few dozen or hundred molecules will impinge on the ship, having no significant effect.
 
there's the fact that solidifying the top of the magma layer of an erupting volcano would actually make things far, far worse, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who owns a pressure cooker.

Is there any reason to think that the device didn't solify the entire magma pocket?
 
Is there any reason to think that the device didn't solify the entire magma pocket?

Because the magma probably goes down hundreds of miles? Because it's an extension of the planet's molten core, from which the pressure is coming? If it doesn't come out there, it's just gonna come out somewhere else.

Not to mention that the only way to freeze something is by moving its heat somewhere else. I could buy that, say, dissipating the removed heat into the atmosphere would be no worse than the atmospheric heating the eruption itself would cause, but to transfer the heat of the entire magma pocket into the atmosphere would probably cause a global cataclysm.
 
Can we think of any sensible reasons one would hide a big massive starship under the water instead of you know, IN SPACE? Sure the reason it's in the movie is because it looks cool, but has anyone come up with an actual reason they would do that?

Hypothetical idea: If a starship was badly damaged and there were properties of (creatures living in) the sea they hid in that would stabilize the damages so they could limp to a starbase.
 
Because the magma probably goes down hundreds of miles? Because it's an extension of the planet's molten core, from which the pressure is coming? If it doesn't come out there, it's just gonna come out somewhere else.

I've got it! Two-part plan. The Enterprise weakened another part of the ocean floor, near enough to be connected to the same magma pocket, but far enough away to be no threat to anyone on land, then used the coincidentally-named fusing-by-cold device to patch the volcano, so the pressure would instead safely break through the crust at the already-prepared point elsewhere. The Enterprise had to go underwater to drill the pilot-hole for the underwater volcano they were making (some combination of the ocean water diffusing their phasers before they could penetrate to the ocean floor, and an orbital bombardment definitely being noticeable by the locals and being much more disruptive to the environment thanks to all the water being boiled away by shooting through it), but they couldn't just pop the proverbial pimple right there because then the ship would be inside of an exploding volcano. They then traveled underwater to the island with the erupting volcano, which allowed them to have a base to implement their plan to cap it off without having to worry about interference from the ash cloud and whatnot, as discussed.

Hypothetical idea: If a starship was badly damaged and there were properties of (creatures living in) the sea they hid in that would stabilize the damages so they could limp to a starbase.

I think that happened in "Farscape."
 
I've got it! Two-part plan. The Enterprise weakened another part of the ocean floor, near enough to be connected to the same magma pocket, but far enough away to be no threat to anyone on land, then used the coincidentally-named fusing-by-cold device to patch the volcano, so the pressure would instead safely break through the crust at the already-prepared point elsewhere. The Enterprise had to go underwater to drill the pilot-hole for the underwater volcano they were making (some combination of the ocean water diffusing their phasers before they could penetrate to the ocean floor, and an orbital bombardment definitely being noticeable by the locals and being much more disruptive to the environment thanks to all the water being boiled away by shooting through it), but they couldn't just pop the proverbial pimple right there because then the ship would be inside of an exploding volcano. They then traveled underwater to the island with the erupting volcano, which allowed them to have a base to implement their plan to cap it off without having to worry about interference from the ash cloud and whatnot, as discussed.

Okay, that's clever. I just hope there weren't any unrecognized sentient aquatic species in the vicinity. Also, wouldn't an undersea volcanic upheaval on that scale potentially cause tsunamis?
 
star-trek-into-darkness-hd-0310.jpg


Also, wouldn't an undersea volcanic upheaval on that scale potentially cause tsunamis?

That's for the second contact/clean-up squad to handle, I guess. Unless a secondary wave was triggered in the opposite direction and they met in the middle. Is there such a thing as a waterbreak, like a firebreak?
 
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