This just popped up on my Facebook news feed, I've not read it all, but thought I'd share anyway.
Explained: the death of Ianto Jones
- Thread starter DimesDan
- Start date
I didn't see the need to off Ianto, as they already had Jack sacrificing his grandson.
Add to that Tosh & Owen already being killed off.
I think they left themselves too thin on characters, whether they thought they would be doing more shows or not.
Ianto's death was pretty shocking when it happened last year, didn't see it coming at all and while I agree with the intention of what it did to Jack, shattered him completely to the point of driving him off the planet in grief. Losing and sacrificing his grandson should have been enough.
Although, I suppose you could argue that, had Ianto survived, there might have been just enough to keep Jack anchored and stay on Earth. But this way, by the end of the story, he had lost absolutely everything. He lost his boyfriend. He lost his grandson; and because of that, it's very doubtful that his daughter would ever be willing to speak to him again. He even lost his job, with the British government betraying him, blowing up the Cardiff Hub, trying to kill him, and when they realized he couldn't die, burying him alive in concrete.
Plus, I think they were trying to imbue an overall sense of loss to the audience as well. At the end, the only the we have left to cling to is Gwen & Rhys.
Plus, I think they were trying to imbue an overall sense of loss to the audience as well. At the end, the only the we have left to cling to is Gwen & Rhys.
I'm wondering why it was important to have Jack leave Earth. It's not they used it as a device for him to travel with the Doctor, like the other times he "left".
Like I said, to increase the sense of loss & alienation & change at the end. Not only has Jack lost everything. When Jack leaves, it sweeps away pretty much any remaining elements that Gwen had during her Torchwood tenure. Other than the human race not getting wiped out, the only light at the end of the tunnel is Gwen & Rhys & their baby. The point of "Children of Earth" was to make things as dark & difficult as possible. (That's also why the Doctor didn't show up. He doesn't fit with the oppressively dark tone of "Children of Earth.")
Yeah Jack clearly felt like there was nothing left for him to stay on Earth. He had lost his boyfriend, someone whom he finally admitted that he loved, he sacrificed his own grandson and alienated his ex to the point where she never wants to see him again, even Gwen and Rhys's baby wasn't enough hope to keep Jack around, not to mention that his work had been totally destroyed by the government. It would seem that one of the goals of COE was to literally destroy everything important and strip down Jack...make him face the consequences for the choices he has made over the decades, it sure as hell accomplished that. It ended on such a depressing note. After the series aired I couldn't help but keep thinking about Gwen's quote about the Doctor, he really would have been livid how they dealt with that situation.The Doctor most likely would have killed the 456 seeing no other way, especially after it was revealed what their "drug" was. No way would he have tolerated that shit.
I wasn't indicating the Doctor should show up for COE, but that at the end of at least one TW episode, we heard the TARDIS, which was the lead-in for Jack's appearance in DW.
I don't remember off-hand how or if they explained all of Jack's DW appearances that way.
I'm hoping for a S6 appearance for Jack on DW. I'm thinking he'll make a pass at 11, thinking he's just a "sweet young thing" and the Doctor will say something like "Jack Harkenss, you're still an impossible thing".
I've been hoping for a Captain Jack appearance for series six since Matt was announced as the Eleventh Doctor but the likelihood of it happening is slim imo. As for how Gwen and company reacted to Jack's disappearance, this was dealt with in the series two premire where Gwen confronted Jack about where he went and Jack told her about the Doctor and dropped hints about the year that was lost.
"End of Days" ended with the hand in the jar glowing, the TARDIS sound effect, & Jack running out of the Hub. That's how they led into Jack's 3-part stint on Doctor Who in "Utopia," "The Sound of Drums," & "Last of the Time Lords."
In "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End," he & the Doctor & Martha & Sarah Jane all teamed up to repel the Daleks' invasion of Earth.
In "The End of Time," the Doctor sees Jack in some kind of alien bar. This is presumably after Jack left Earth at the end of "Children of Earth."
As for my personal in-universe theory for why the Doctor didn't come to help Earth during the "Children of Earth" crisis: I think the TARDIS scans time for cataclysms that the Doctor could solve that no one else could. Since Jack was able to resolve the situation with minimal collateral damage without the Doctor's help, the TARDIS saw no need to intervene in the crisis. (I'm more curious about what Sarah Jane's response to the situation would have been.)
Um...wasn't the Doctor traveling during this point of time? I think it was mentioned in one of the specials that he had been traveling and hadn't been to the present until he was summoned by the Ood. Or is that speculation on my part?
By present of course I mean 21st century Earth.
I think the simplest explanation is just that the Doctor didn't know it would happen. Remember, Harriet Jones was supposed to be Prime Minister for three terms, but the Doctor instigated a vote of no confidence against her after maybe a year in office at the most; had the considerably more moral Harriet Jones been the one in Downing Street, the blank page against Jack and the other agents from 1965 would never have been issued, the Torchwood Hub would never have been attacked, and Torchwood Three would probably have been able to help U.N.I.T. and/or the British Armed Forces find and defeat the 4-5-6.
As with the rise of the Master as Mister Saxon, the Doctor simply cannot possibly know everything that happens as a consequence of his alterations to history, and if he happens to just not be there to see it, well, then, that's all there is to it.
Another possibility, of course, is that the Doctor did know it was going to happen but also knew it was one of those fixed points in time that he couldn't interfere with.
I was just thinking. After all this, Jack is one of the few people in the universe to know exactly how the Doctor feels.
What to be alone? He's not really alone though...not like the Doctor is if that is what you are referring to.
I think he's referring to the fact that the Doctor outlives everybody.
Technically, Jack's already older than the Doctor. He was stuck in the ground for 1,982 years after having previously already lived 139 years on Earth, and after having presumably been at least about 40 when he met the Doctor, and who then went and lived a forgotten year under the Master's rule. 40 + 139 + 1 (forgotten year) + 1 + 1,982 + 1... 2,164. So we're talking about a guy who, as of "The End of Time, Part Two," is already about 1,250 years older than the Doctor, even if he apparently spent 1,982 of those years unconscious.
