Expanded/Directors Editions or Theatrical?

[Ssosmcin]

Three of the Classic Trek movies have been released in expanded and director's cuts on home video and streaming. Everyone has their preference.

1) Star Trek: The Motion Picture has the most versions: theatrical, Special Longer Version, Directors Cut (two versions)

2) The Wrath of Khan: Theatrical & Director's Cut

3) The Undiscovered Country: Theatrical & Director's Cut (two versions)

I would love to know everyone's preferences. Mine are:

1) TMP - this one is kinda tough, because I really like the flow of the more strealined cut and the restored "Spock cries" scene of the DC. But some of the new effects don't work for me and the updated attempt at a lounge background is awful. But the sound mix is beautiful. I grew up with the theatrical and love it, but the SLV is just weird. I think the DC wins but not by much. And I'm gonna go with the 2001 version - wishing that was in HD.

2) TWOK: Theatrical. By a mile. Other than the Scotty/Preston story, none of the other scenes add anything to the film. In fact, I wish Nick Meyer gave us a TRUE director's cut, with his version of the film before Harve Bennet has his cut, without Spock's tube at the end and the little bits of character that still aren't there. The theatrical is a perfectly paced movie. But if they kept the nephew angle in for Scotty, it would have fleshed out that random character and given Doohan his one true dramatic moment in the films.

3) TUC: Theatrical. Easily. The DC's "Scooby Doo" reveal is hilariously bad and the added scene's really don't do a damned thing for the film; Valeris' slide down the fireman's pole which wobbles the wall is laughable and Scotty's "Klingon Bitch" remark is a step too far. And don't get me started on the second try at this cut with the "bonnng!" flashback scenes when Valeris names the conspirators. The theatrical is a much tigher cut and works well for me.

The other films in the series remain theatrical. Nimoy was satisfied with his final cuts of his two films, but I would love to see different cuts anyway. I don't think anything is missing from Star Trek V other than trims for pacing and added "meld" stuff for Spock (which looks terrible). Actually, a shorter cut of STV would probably help the film if gags were trimmed.

As for the other films, only Nemesis would really benefit from an expanded edition. Putting back the trimmed bits would flesh out the characters more.

No opinion is wrong, so please share yours!

NOTE: This is my first time making a poll, so if it sucks, be kind. And yeah I spotted the typo after the fact.

 

[Daddy Todd]

I prefer the most recent version of TMP, and the theatrical versions of the other two. But I’m not really a fan of TUC in any version, but I dislike the original slightly less than the versions with the “Scooby Doo” flashback, so I went with that.

 

[Tosk]

Every version of TMP has pros and cons. I'm most likely to watch the '22 DE from now on, but I'll always gripe internally at all the flaws. (Just like I did with the theatrcial! )

Edit: I can happily watch any cut of II or VI and have a good time. But my main go-to for both these days is theatrical.

 

[Timby]

As for the other films, only Nemesis would really benefit from an expanded edition. Putting back the trimmed bits would flesh out the characters more.

Absolutely not. Those deleted scenes are cringe-worthy and have all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer to the skull.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Absolutely not. Those deleted scenes are cringe-worthy and have all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer to the skull.

I certainly agree about the Wesley scene, but mostly because I'm not fond of Wil Wheaton's performance.

The Martin Madden stuff? Yeahhhh okay. That's well cut. I tended to appreciate the rest of it though.

 

[suarezguy]

TMP it's been too long since I've watched the extended cuts. I usually strongly prefer theatrical cuts, with Meyer's movies I'm conflicted, the added scenes are uneven but do make the films overall less speedy.

I do like from TWoK the added/extended Kirk "the only reason we're alive is because I know more about starships" comment, it is nice but not really necessary, the images convey enough of the same somber sentiments. I would still go with theatrical cut at least by a bit. I don't mind that Scotty is really torn up about Preston's death for unspecified reasons, like he just really impressed him or reminded him of himself more than the others, rather than having to know he's his nephew.

TUC I like/prefer the extended version, mostly the torpedo-checking and the proposed rescue plan, mostly for giving a little more time right before Kirk and McCoy are put on trial so soon after Gorkon dies. But OTOH I really dislike the showing the flashbacks so if they have to be included in the comparison theatrical, if not then extended.

 

[Kor]

Don't forget the TUC home video edition which had a number of elements that would later be used in the DC/DE but did not have the weird flashback stuff.

Kor

 

[Tallguy]

Every version of TMP has something wrong with it. The current edition has the most things right with it. The sound mix is SUBLIME! (<-- If I could I would make that word lit in color and dancing.) The re-composited original FX are amazing. I haven't liked the re-done Starfleet since the 2001 edition and it's worse here. The Officer's Lounge... I know they did their best. The original was fine.

The edit is superior (obviously) and there are actually new FX that have legitimate purpose. Most notably leaving the wormhole and the end of Vejur's first attack on the Enterprise. Oh, and dropping off the Ilia killing probe.

BTW, if you ever have any issue with the "wing walk" scene where they emerge from the top of the Enterprise saucer? See it on the big screen. WOW! The Enterprise has so much majesty that is just lost on the TV set. Even a really big one. All is forgiven.

TWOK: Gotta go with the theatrical. It's perfect. I kinda miss the scene with Scotty when Peter dies. I like the Peter Preston scene better in theory than in practice. But the alternate takes are like moving the furniture in my house. I know the originals too well and the new ones are not improved.

TUC: I... Don't care? I didn't know about the aspect ratio. I'll have to find out more about that. I still don't have the latest 4K of 5 and 6. The one change I like is the flashes of the conspirators. I'm a total nerd and I had no idea who Valeris was talking about until I'd seen it 3 times. (Which in my case was all in the opening weekend.) But Scotty's line is the worst. For all the stories about the actor's complaining that their characters were acting weird, Doohan would have been the one with a leg to stand on.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Theatrical for all, I think.

 

[Vger23]

I like all the different versions of TMP for different reasons, kind of like how I feel about Close Encounters.

I prefer the theatrical cut of TWOK by a hair, but I’ve taken to watching the expanded cut more just because I haven’t seen it as much. I like the subplot of Scotty’s nephew and the expanded dialogue in sickbay after the attack in particular.

I much prefer the Theatrical cut of TUC.

 

[Jedi Marso]

What is the difference between the 2001 and '22 versions of TMP?

 

[Tallguy]

What is the difference between the 2001 and '22 versions of TMP?

The edit is generally the same. That was what was most important to Robert Wise (director) and was what he felt he would have done under normal circumstances.

The sound mix is completely redone. Both the 2001 and the 2022 tried to address the lack of a final sound mix. The 2022 fills in the gaps with more TMP appropriate sound FX. They found a fair amount of ADR the actors did that was never put in the film. They have correct music elements in some places where they did not in 2001.

All the digital FX had to be redone since the 2001 was done for DVD in SD. In many cases it's an improvement not just because of the resolution but also because we can better simulate the kind of lighting and FX that Trumbull and Dykstra were famous for.

There are, unfortunately, a few (IMHO) "not quite there" FX. Maybe in another 20 years.

There are far more exhaustive lists than this, but that should be "a good start".

 

[David cgc]

There were some peculiar decisions with the new VFX in the 2022 version that weren't present in the 2001 version. For instance, they added a vignette effect around the edge of the frame in at least some of the new shots (most noticeable in the first shot of Kirk's air-tram flying toward the Golden Gate Bridge) that isn't present in any of the footage from 1979, and in general, the CG is a lot sharper, brighter, and more saturated, whereas in the 2001 version, there was a lot of attention given to adjusting the new footage to match coloration, sharpness, grain levels, and small movements and misalignments from frame to frame that don't seem to have had the same emphasis in the 2022 version, so the new shots stick out a lot more.

That vignette is really weird. It's just not in the rest of the movie, I'm not sure what they'd add it. If anything, it reminds me of the 2001 version creating effects that would've been hand-animated in 1979 "on twos" (only creating every second frame, making a "stepping" effect) because that was a common time-saving trick in animation, even though the actual hand-animated effects in the actual movie weren't done that way and were animated for every frame.

 

[Tallguy]

If anything, it reminds me of the 2001 version creating effects that would've been hand-animated in 1979 "on twos" (only creating every second frame, making a "stepping" effect) because that was a common time-saving trick in animation, even though the actual hand-animated effects in the actual movie weren't done that way and were animated for every frame.

There is actually an on twos shot in TMP during the Spock Walk. So it wasn't out of the question.

But yes, I think they did a better job matching the feel in most of the shots in 01 than in 22.

On the one hand it was such an obvious labor of love from all involved, but I can't help feel that they were finally given the green light but they weren't necessarily given the time.

 

[Tosk]

There are also multiple VFX errors and subpar final shots that are brand new to the '22 version. And not just the lounge rotoscoping, though that is the most obvious of them.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Every version of TMP has something wrong with it.

Boy, ain't that the truth. All the new edits, FX, and sound mixes in the world can't fix what was always an inherently flawed story and script. As Patton Oswalt put it in a GQ video last year, "It's oatmeal-colored uniforms on a gunmetal-colored ship. Everyone's in a bad mood. Nothing really happens."

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With TMP, I'll go with the 2001 Edition. It was a notable improvement on both the theatrical cut and the Special Longer Edition for TV. I finally watched the 2022 version earlier this year and outside of the new effects, I didn't notice much difference.

With TWOK, I much prefer the theatrical cut. Most of the deleted scenes don't add too much, and I dislike the alternate take used in the "Scientists have always been pawns of the military" scene on Regula I. It was nice having confirmation that Peter Preston was Scotty's nephew, but the "blind as a Tiberian bat" bit was pretty cheesy, IMO.

For TUC, I enjoyed the added material. It's always nice to see Rene Auberjonois, and he did a nice job as Col. West. I could take or leave the assassin being revealed as West. And I personally LOVED the closeups of the conspirators during the mind meld scene. It refreshes the audience's memory and it adds a nice ominous touch going into the climax of the movie, especially that shot of General Chang in mid-beam in.

 

[Tallguy]

Every version of TMP has something wrong with it.

Boy, ain't that the truth. All the new edits, FX, and sound mixes in the world can't fix what was always an inherently flawed story and script. As Patton Oswalt put it in a GQ video last year, "It's oatmeal-colored uniforms on a gunmetal-colored ship. Everyone's in a bad mood. Nothing really happens."

Now now now. That's not what I meant. "Every version of TMP has something UNIQUELY wrong with it."

Sorry Patton. I think if you can watch TWOK (great movie) and say "THIS is what Star Trek was like all the time" then you don't know Star Trek nearly as well as you say you do. (If you say TOS was NEVER like TWOK? Same thing.) As I have been saying for... 30 years? Ish? "TWOK is Balance of Terror / Doomsday Machine and TMP is The Corbomite Maneuver (complete with serious, cranky people)."

The theatrical cut is missing important scenes that were filmed (Spock's tear) or not filmed (FX that would connect scenes such as the wormhole dissipating or Vejur's first attack going away) and a nearly non-existent sound mix. (People talk, the most important things beep and boop and that's it. In TOS, and movies in general, places like the bridge are never silent.)

The "Special Longer Version" is not really a cut at all but a "Hey, we have it, throw it in." So just like an infinite number of monkeys you get some good stuff. But it's still a mess compared to the Theatrical which while the Theatrical is rushed and incomplete it is at least largely on purpose.

01 has a better sound mix but it relies too heavily on a TNG sound palette. I'm not a fan of San Fransisco in either of the DEs. Leave the officer's lounge scene the hell alone. Superior edit. The new FX inside Vejur are too murky owing to the CG capabilities on the budget that they had. And it's SD.

22 has a dazzling sound mix that finally sound more like what an expensive film in 1979 would sound like. (I don't have a 5.1 setup so I can't speak to those bells and whistles.) There's still more TOS sounds than there would have been in '79 (which would be 0) but it was tastefully done. The FX still feel rushed in about a 50 / 50 ratio. There isn't the same mission that there was in 2001 of "If we couldn't do it in 1979 we won't do it here." But the Vejur stuff has a better feeling of Trumbull / Dykstra karaoke. LEAVE THE OFFICER'S LOUNGE SCENE THE HELL ALONE.

 

[Unnamed Caitian]

I have all 6 movies in VHS (but I dont have a VHS player anymore) and those are my favourite editions of movies 2-6 for me. (Same with the original 3 Star Wars) (TMP is the Extended)

In other words, theatrical.

When the time came for buying the DVDs, the only versions available of TMP and II and VI were the director's editions.

I bought those but I'm very salty about that.

I refuse to buy again the same movies in other media.

By the way, Netflix only have TOS Remastered. I hate that too. I wanted to see the original Enterprise.

 

[Tallguy]

By the way, Netflix only have TOS Remastered. I hate that too. I wanted to see the original Enterprise.

Yeah, that breaks my "Star Wars" rule. I don't care what you do to the originals as long as the originals are still available.

 

[Tosk]

Yeah, that breaks my "Star Wars" rule. I don't care what you do to the originals as long as the originals are still available.

The original version of TOS is still extremely available. (To the extreme!)