It sounds like it's not the energy itself that's incompatible, but the actual hardware itself, like how if my watch needs button batteries, it doesn't matter if I have a fully-charged double A, it will not work. So, I'm inclined to give them a pass.
Excessive Criticism of "STAR TREK VOYAGER"
- Thread starter LJones41
- Start date
It sounds like it's not the energy itself that's incompatible, but the actual hardware itself, like how if my watch needs button batteries, it doesn't matter if I have a fully-charged double A, it will not work. So, I'm inclined to give them a pass.
This is something I was just wondering about although maybe I should ask it in the tech section.
Could Voyager and/or the Enterprise encounter a vessel that is on the same level tech wise (warp drive capable etc) but their systems be so incompatible with each other that if one was in distress the other could not help...sort of like the modern day equivalents of Apple and Android? I know..bad example but it's the only one I could think of off the top of my head.
This makes me think that a very good engineer like Torres (who I think is good at thinking outside of the box) could figure out a way to adapt the hardware to make it work.
Does anyone remember from the movie Apollo 13? When the astronauts had to stay in the lunar module and the air scrubbers were overloading with CO-2. They had extra filters for the command module but they were square and the hole for the filters in the lunar module was round. Some engineers at NASA figured out a way to make it work by improvising something that the astronauts could put together with what they had on hand. I'm not sure how accurate this was to what happened in reality.
So with the same principals in mind, say Torres and her team could find ways to make it work.
You're not arguing that a shuttle is less complex than a photon torpedeo are you? A photon torpedeo is basically a warp driven ship with a M/AM warhead except it doesn't need systems such as life support along with the multiple backup systems for just that system alone, it doesn't really needmuch of a computer either.
So if they can't replace something as basic as a photon torpdeo why can they replace something more complex? It doesn't make any logical sense.
As for the incompatable system, hows your DC powered laptop doing when you charge it from your AC system. You just need to build a transformer to convert one type of power into another.
From VOY "Fair Haven"
JANEWAY: Then transfer all secondary power sources. Transporters, replicators, holodecks.
KIM: Captain, there's not enough time to go through the hologrid shutdown sequence. We'd lose most of Fair Haven.
They must have build a transformer at some point, but why didn't they have one to begin with. Surely from a design perspective you would want your ships power systems to be totally compable. Nothing against the holodeck having it's own power systems seperate from the rest of the ship but those power systems should be at the very least compatable. The only reason they made them incompatable was so they wouldn't get fans saying "Well in TNG's Booby Trap you told us holodeck are one of the first things to go if you have to conserve power"
Really, character stuff doesn't have to be front and center to still matter. The problem was the fact that big character moments don't even get a brief mention. Or characters are forgotten for no good reason.
Also, I don't mind the holodeck systems being incompatible if they bothered to try and figure out a fix for it. But, it's just ignored as if it's a minor thing.
Isn't that part of the issue in of themselves some of the points raised in this thread might be minor, but when you add up all these minor issues it shows a lack of care from the producers of the show. And many of these things where things the writers imposed on themselves
Incomptable holodeck power systesms - check
Unable to replace Photon torpedeos - check
No backup for the EMH - check
I'm no writer but surely it's just common sense not to impose a limitation on yourself as a writer if you just plan on ignoring it because it's inconveniant to the current story.
Incomptable holodeck power systesms - check
Unable to replace Photon torpedeos - check
No backup for the EMH - check
I'm no writer but surely it's just common sense not to impose a limitation on yourself as a writer if you just plan on ignoring it because it's inconveniant to the current story.
The calculus was that VOY was going to be a different show from TNG and DS9. Playing up the human drama (with the Fed vs Maqui conflict), more focus on discovery and exploration and less emphasis on action from the start (hence the limitation on photon torpedoes). You saw Jeri Taylor make similar comments regarding Star Trek Generations. With her comments about the audience finding the lack of action "charming", presumably because it would be defy expectations for show like Star Trek. Then the reality of VOY's reception hit them, and TPTW pulled out all the stops to keep VOY on the air. A lot of shoot'em up action with hand phasers, starship battles, T and A and the bulk of the development and focus going to the 3 most popular characters.
Last edited:
The audience got what they wanted, the irony is... What audience?
By trying to change to appease and reclaim an absent audience they alienated the audience that stayed until Voyager was skimming across a toilet puddle by the end.
By trying to change to appease and reclaim an absent audience they alienated the audience that stayed until Voyager was skimming across a toilet puddle by the end.
Nope we got what the execs thought the audiance wanted, and to be sure some loved what they got. But that can be said of many shows.
But as you say changing things to often can sometimes alienate audiances, sometimes a show hitsw the ground running sometimes it takes a while to get going. But some of that is down to a segment of the audiance who wants it now rather than the segment who is prepared to give it some time to grow and develop.
You're assuming that the later showrunners who broke those rules were the same ones who imposed them in the first place. They likely weren't, considering how often VOY's staff was replaced.
Frankly, those limitations were a bad idea to begin with. But the bigger problem was no one bothering to think up a real plot for the show while making it (mainly because they were rushed into production).
Doesn't matter if it's different writers, they still have to write according to the rules of the universe or at least treat the audaince with some degree of respect and tell them why the previous limitation no longer applies.
A limitation isn't of in its own a bad thing, but what you do with it. So the problem wasn't the fact that the limitations were a bad thing rather the fact they choose to ignore them or use them when it was convenineant to the plot that was the bad thing. But as you say some of it was down to poor planning i.e. not realising how what they were writing could impact future plots. Sometimes it's best to be specific other times its better to be a bit more ambiguous.
Isn't that the same as showing us every step of the surgery needed to change Picard back to Locutus?
Let me put it this way, the "No torpedoes" or "no shuttles" limitation is like writing a Western, giving the traveling Gunslinger a big bag full of coins and towns with ammo stores but still saying "I can never replenish my bullets".
I disagree, these people are not basic users, they're engineers. Adapting an energy source to a device, is one of the most basic thing in engineering. If they can't do that, they should quit engineering and take up gardening instead.
Given that we don't know all the details of the tech, there may be a reason that it wasn't feasible that we're not aware of.
Ok, let's leave it at that. Peace!
I don't think that analogy works.
Limitations, as @MacLeod pointed out, are all in how you use them. The VOY staff didn't use them or attempt to fix them when the new staff took over. It was a status quo maintained from beginning to end.
Yes, some limits came from the studio, and no doubt the desire to have a TNG style show that could be syndicated was one of them. But, such limits are a part of life, not something to complain about constantly.
It earns no sympathy and no favors from me to sit there and complain about a limitation and do nothing to work within it. Say what you want about GR, or Nicholas Meyer, or George Lucas, or a variety of other famous directors and/or producers, but they had the ability to work under constraints when it was mandated. So, it's not impossible.
Voyager had everything it needed to make more shuttles and torpedoes, though.
They didn't really have many constraints.
I don't believe the criticism of Voyager was so extreme as some would have you believe. Some episodes are pretty stupid,even on the face of it.
Maybe, although I sometimes wonder if I've seen the same show when I hear some of the more intense critiques.
Sounds like just about every TV show ever produced.
