Excelsior Intended to Replace Enterprise

[Robert D. Robot]

[clip]
....Author/artist opinion doesn't count - those people don't exist in the Star Trek universe.

Timo Saloniemi

Ironically, you know whose opinions and whose existence is even further outside the Star Trek Universe than the individuals who wrote, designed and filmed it?

Us!

Ghosts Debating Fiction!

 

[Dukhat]

Why the need for "explanations"? There's no requirement for that model to be the Stargazer, any more than there's a requirement for all the models in Sisko's room (from the Daedalus to the ancient space station) to be personally relevant to Sisko.

When I worked at the Naval Academy gift shop, there were many wooden airplane desk models we used to sell. People would buy them because it was the same type of airplane they once flew, even if the generic registry number printed on the model was not the same as their original plane.

So my theory? That model, while not a specific representation of the Stargazer (i.e. different registry), it IS meant to represent his old ship. If the model wasn't personally relevant to Picard, then he might as well have had a Niagara, Excelsior, New Orleans etc. class ship sitting there. But the fact that it was a Constellation class model, and Picard once commanded a Constellation class ship, wouldn't JarodRussell's assumption of Occam's Razor be the right one?

(And BTW, I'm pretty sure Rick Sternbach once said that the model was indeed supposed to represent the Stargazer, generic registry and all.)

 

[Rick Sternbach]

(And BTW, I'm pretty sure Rick Sternbach once said that the model was indeed supposed to represent the Stargazer, generic registry and all.)

Yep; to my way of thinking, the desk model was the Stargazer just after a warp stress hull coating and test numbers were applied, but before the stress test was flown and before it got its true name and reg numbers.

Rick

 

[Robert D. Robot]

(And BTW, I'm pretty sure Rick Sternbach once said that the model was indeed supposed to represent the Stargazer, generic registry and all.)

Yep; to my way of thinking, the desk model was the Stargazer just after a warp stress hull coating and test numbers were applied, but before the stress test was flown and before it got its true name and reg numbers.

Rick

^ Wow! So how cool is that! Thank you very much for sharing your insight, Mr. Sternbach!

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Indeed thanks Rick for your input and there we have it...another who feels that it was the Stargazer!

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Thanks, Rick! ^^ That's also a good in-universe view of things.

 

[T'Girl]

The easiest answer is always the right one.

wouldn't JarodRussell's assumption of Occam's Razor be the right one?

Occam's Razor says that the simplistic answer is the preferable one, not the right one.

Given that Picard's ready room contains a big ass book of Shakespeare, it seem unlikely that the chamber's other prominent display simply came with the room.

Especially since after Jellico's departure, the model returned.

 

[Dukhat]

Occam's Razor says that the simplistic answer is the preferable one, not the right one.

Occam's Razor: "The maxim that assumptions introduced to explain a thing must not be multiplied beyond necessity."

-Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 2nd ed.

 

[Mr Pointy Ears]

Did he plan to have the crew on the Excelsior as the excelsior or as the Enterprise A?.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Did he plan to have the crew on the Excelsior as the excelsior or as the Enterprise A?.

It would have been as the Excelsior.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Did he plan to have the crew on the Excelsior as the excelsior or as the Enterprise A?.

I reckon if Kirk had have been given Excelsior at the end of a Spockless ST IV, then ST V might have concluded with a scene of Kirk renaming Excelsior as a new Enterprise, or handing it over to Captain Sulu.

 

[thepatagonian]

Someone has pointed out that the Enterprise-D was lost due to gross negligence. True enough.

To make another point, there may be a good reason why Picard had the attitude that "there are plenty of letters left in the alfabet." He'd already commanded and lost the Stargazer under destressing and mysterious circumstances. Part of his history is the loss he felt over its loss. One could call it PTSD.

The Picard we see in later seasons of TNG, Generations, and First Contact probably had come to terms with this loss and knew how to insulate himself. He passed this information on to his crew either deliberately or unwittingly.

Ultimately to him, the Enterpise-D was a marvelous thing but it was just a thing.

 

[Vance]

Yep; to my way of thinking, the desk model was the Stargazer just after a warp stress hull coating and test numbers were applied, but before the stress test was flown and before it got its true name and reg numbers.

Cute, but wouldn't they only do that with the Constellation?

 

[BillJ]

Yep; to my way of thinking, the desk model was the Stargazer just after a warp stress hull coating and test numbers were applied, but before the stress test was flown and before it got its true name and reg numbers.

Cute, but wouldn't they only do that with the Constellation?

Just because its' the Constellation class... doesn't mean it was the first one out of the yard. I could see a scenario where there were design issues that had to be dealt with on the completed Constellation, but were incorporated on subsequent vessels during the design and construction stage.

The Constellation herself may have had to have a complete refit based on issues with the four nacelle design before ever being space worthy.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Instead of Enterprise, they should of done a show with George Tekei. It could have incorporated a lot of the old TOS actors plus actors from the other series either playing their roles or another character.

The TOS characters could of more or less played their own ages, and could of had episodes dealing with the death of Scotty and Bones. It could have been more or less a series bridging the time between TOS and TNG.

 

[Timo]

Going for all-new characters and locations at least offered the theoretical possibility of doing new kinds of stories, though. How could the Sulu show have been made to be different from TOS or TNG? Especially if one wanted to retain the "ship as main character" feel that's being discussed here.

Realistically speaking, stories where heroes move from ship to ship are more in keeping with the nautical adventures of past and present than stories where heroes stick to one ship only. Those are difficult to do in a TV show where ships would need to be differentiated by the building of distinct sets, but a new ship for every movie wouldn't be out of the order... Say, big heroes on a big ship in one story, small heroes on a small boat in another; new ships, old ships, strong ships, weak ships. That'd give the ships more character and more of a role to play. Sulu might have gotten the Excelsior while Chekov earned command of some rickety old frigate that was constantly falling apart, and Uhura went on to command a flotilla of speedboats used in James Bond style chases and cloak-and-dagger stuff. Or whatever.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[el Chalupacabra]

I don't believe the Excelsior strayed too far from that formula to warrant any issue here, although I don't think it's a good enough looking ship to be the Enterprise.

Um, it WAS the Enterprise-B
They just re-badged the Excelsior model for Generations.

 

[Bishop76]

They did a bit more than rebadge it. May be the same model, but they did make several changes to it.

 

[BillJ]

They did a bit more than rebadge it. May be the same model, but they did make several changes to it.

Wish they'd have left it alone.

 

[Bishop76]

I actually like both versions