Excelsior Intended to Replace Enterprise

[Robert D. Robot]

"The first vessel that I served on as captain was called Stargazer. It was an overworked, underpowered vessel, always on the verge of flying apart at the seams. In every measurable sense, my Enterprise is far superior. But there are times when I would give almost anything... to command the Stargazer again."

Scotty is the person most likely and most often accused of "loving" his ship, but Picard does seem to also still have some feelings for his "first love".

 

[Dukhat]

anyway Picard had just lost several members of his family and saved millions of inhabitants in the Viridian system - I think the loss of a mere starship was a pretty minor thing next to that.

The thing is, by the end of the movie, Picard didn't seem to really give a crap about the fact that his brother and nephew were dead, or about a few million no-name aliens that no one cares about, or even the destruction of his ship. Hell, he carlessly throws away a priceless artifact just so he can get to his scrapbook, which is all he seems to care about.

In just a few hours, he goes from being totally stricken by Robert and Rene's deaths, to adopting a completely unbelievable "well, life goes on" attitude. I'm pretty sure that if my brother and his son were killed, it would take me a hell of a lot longer time to cope with it.

 

[JarodRussell]

The thing is, by the end of the movie, Picard didn't seem to really give a crap about the fact that his brother and nephew were dead, or about a few million no-name aliens that no one cares about, or even the destruction of his ship. Hell, he carlessly throws away a priceless artifact just so he can get to his scrapbook, which is all he seems to care about.

Funny. His scrapbook contained photographs of his brother and nephew, it was more important to him than priceless artifacts. So he did care.

And the whole point of Generations was for the characters to learn to let go and move on.

In just a few hours, he goes from being totally stricken by Robert and Rene's deaths, to adopting a completely unbelievable "well, life goes on" attitude. I'm pretty sure that if my brother and his son were killed, it would take me a hell of a lot longer time to cope with it.

He constantly looked in the mirror in this movie. First Soran, who lost his wife and child, never got over that and wanted to kill millions for it. Then Data, who suddenly has emotions and is all whiny about it. And then the Nexus, that gave him the chance to see his nephew one last time. And then a talk with Captain Kirk himself who tells him that even if he could be living this dream inside the Nexus, he wouldn't, because it's not real. Kirk rather died instead of whining about the past. It's not too unbelievable that because all of that, Picard realized to move on.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

^ This sort of behavior (discussed in the previous two posts) was not restricted to the characters of the Trek movies (although I lean toward agreement with JarodRussell on the reasoning behind Picard's behavior).

After gaining control of the Enterprise after "The Ultimate Computer" effectively destroys the Excaliber with all hands and then kills and injures many others on her three sister starships, Kirk casually strolls around the bridge, telling Spock how he could gamble on Bob Wesley's humanity. Then Spock makes a joke about how illogical a computer would be if McCoy's engrams were impressed upon a computer. Ha Ha. We even get the little musical cue that indicates that we are to "laugh here" as the episode ends.

Reflection upon all the death that had just occurred seems to be missing. This episode could have better ended in a more somber note, IMO.

 

[Anticitizen]

There's a narrative failure in Genesis. The setup, as delivered, was that Picard experienced a great personal loss, and the narrative element was that he was tempted by the fantasy-fulfilling nature of the Nexus, and rejected it as unreal (fair enough - it's the same reason why one would reject holodeck fantasies over reality). The failure in narrative occurs when we learn that one can change the past by exiting the Nexus at any arbitrary point in the past - thus Picard should've been able to save his family, the planet, his ship, and anything else conceivable. In my opinion, they should've eliminated all references to nexus-time-travel from the script. Just remove the sequence in which the planet gets destroyed and our heroes have to 'redo' that sequence. Without the time travel crap, it's pared down to the important stuff - unreality, temptation, etc.

 

[Dukhat]

Funny. His scrapbook contained photographs of his brother and nephew, it was more important to him than priceless artifacts.

Yeah, I know that. That wasn't my point. My point was that, even despite the scrapbook, Picard seemed to be completely over his grief about the deaths of his family in under two hours. And add to that fact that he was given an opportunity to go back in time and save them, and instead he completely ignores that and picks some totally off-the-wall point in time to go back to The-Planet-That-Nobody-Cares-About and stop Soran. And his choice had absolutely nothing to do with letting go and moving on.

And the whole point of Generations was for the characters to learn to let go and move on.

I thought the whole point of Generations was to unite Kirk and Picard to fight some evil mad scientist.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Picard did have a Stargazer model in his quarters, sentimental reasons. As for the scrap book, we have no idea what other photos he had there. The only ones pertinent to the story were of his family. On the DVD for Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country there is a feature on props and the woman who is responsible for watching over them and providing tours shows a bunch of material that is in the book including a bunch of Starfleet memorabilia based on his career.

 

[Timo]

Picard did have a Stargazer model in his quarters, sentimental reasons.

To be sure, the model didn't have Stargazer's name or registry. And Picard was okay with having it elsewhere every now and then, replaced by some other model.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Admiral_Young]

Of course it didn't have Stargazer's name or registry number but I think it's safe to assume that it was supposed to represent his old ship. Just like there was a model of the Saratoga in Ben Sisko's office.

 

[Dukhat]

And Picard was okay with having it elsewhere every now and then, replaced by some other model.

AFAIK, the only time it was ever replaced or moved from its location was the one episode that the real Stargazer was featured in, and that was only because they thought they'd have to use the movie Enterprise filming model.

 

[T'Girl]

I was never under the impression that the ship displayed in Picard's ready room and the ship Picard commanded were the same ship, if only because they display different hull numbers. NCC-7100 and NCC-2893. If TPTB wanted the ships to be the same, then why after the display models hull number was decided upon place a different hull number on the other ship?

The ship in the ready room would seem to be of importance to Picard, but it's not the Stargazer.

 

[JarodRussell]

I was never under the impression that the ship displayed in Picard's ready room and the ship Picard commanded were the same ship, if only because they display different hull numbers. NCC-7100 and NCC-2893. If TPTB wanted the ships to be the same, then why after the display models hull number was decided upon place a different hull number on the other ship?

Probably because no one gives a shit about registry numbers and the models on the set where built very quickly in under an hour or so.

John Eaves posted a similar story about the golden ships in the Ent-E briefing room once.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Why would Picard have a random Constellation class starship in his ready room then? Why would Sisko have the same model in his office on DS9? As discussed in the thread, Picard had a sentimental attachment to the Stargazer and remembered it and it's crew with fondness. He specified the ship by name...not the class of starship it was. I highly doubt he had it there because he admired the class.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

In the course of creating a television episode, inconsistencies will occasionally pop up because -in television production- sometimes one hand is not aware of what the other hand is doing.

This explanation may help clarify, from the "NCC 7100" page on Memory Alpha:

Rick Sternback's perspective on the model, from the Drex Files: "It's like Camelot, it's only a model. Pretend the NCC-7100 isn't there, and it's exactly like a corporate desk model of, say, an F-22 with generic markings and no specific tail number. Yes, the model represents the USS Stargazer, and if we knew back in early 1987 what the actual reg number would turn out to be, we would have used that. Just keep saying: 'There is no 7100... there is no 7100'."

I had an old pickup truck when I was in high school. I now have a model of a similar truck on my bookshelf. It is not the same year, but it is close enough, or at least as close as I could get. It represents my own truck, for my purposes.

 

[T'Girl]

Other possibilities exist, depending upon how many Constellations were produced. the ship display may represent the first ship Picard was assigned to as a fresh ensign, and not a ship he personal commanded, any more that the painting of the space station in his quarters depicts a previous command.







.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ That's a good point. I still like to think it is the Stargazer though, he has way too much sentimental and emotional connection to his first command not to have a memento like a model.

 

[JarodRussell]

Other possibilities exist, depending upon how many Constellations were produced. the ship display may represent the first ship Picard was assigned to as a fresh ensign, and not a ship he personal commanded, any more that the painting of the space station in his quarters depicts a previous command.

Why do you keep insisting that it's not the Stargazer? It's a TV show. The easiest answer is always the right one.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The model in Picard's quarters came first, as a kitbash of two TMP Enterprise models (hence "7100"). The Stargazer in "The Battle" was originally written as a Constitution-class ship (and filmed thusly, a few lines were re-dubbed later), but when they realized they could afford it they built a new starship model, which they based on the kitbash model in Picard's ready room.

In-universe explanation? Picard fucked up his decals.

 

[Timo]

Why the need for "explanations"? There's no requirement for that model to be the Stargazer, any more than there's a requirement for all the models in Sisko's room (from the Daedalus to the ancient space station) to be personally relevant to Sisko. For all we know, the Constellation class model was there when Picard first came aboard, and he never cared enough to get rid of it.

The ship need not be "real", either. The models on Sisko's shelves might be toys, things thrown together by his son without regard to accuracy. The models littering Picard's ship might have similar origins - perhaps something from an early Captain Picard Day? Or just commercial decorations to make the various rooms cozier.

Author/artist opinion doesn't count - those people don't exist in the Star Trek universe.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think this discussion regarding the models started in support of the point about the characters and fans being attached to starships...it got into a bit of a nitpicky thing lol.