Ewoks are not that bad, and Boba Fett is not an interesting character

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by JaffreyPanthosa, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He was originally intended to be a single purpose character, not someone with some large backstory the audience needed to know (and TESB novel references do not count), hence his death in ROTJ. Lucas admitting that he did not imagine how popular Fett would become is all the evidence one needs to explain the PT's shoehorning of more Fett into the story.
     
  2. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was never actually released. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. You often hear a lot of "Oh, my cousin had one, I swear!" urban legend nonsense about it.

    Yes, it was advertised as being rocket firing, but they changed the design before it was sold. Recently, they did release a retro-style figure with a firing backpack, but it never happened in the vintage/original era.
     
  3. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's not really shoehorning if it fits organically with the story.

    The armor design started life as a new "Supercommando" Stormtrooper very early in development and was one of the first things worked on for the movie (hence him showing up in the Holiday Special.)
    And despite what you say, the snippet in the ESB novelization* is relevant since it speaks to the background Lucas had in mind for him at the time (remember, that the manuscript was done before they'd even finished post-production.)
    On top of that, Lucas has said in interviews going back to at least the 80's that he viewed Fett as a relic from the Clone Wars, perhaps even a left over clone.
    Making Boba a "special" clone raised by the template himself instead of being some random left over commando was certainly done to capitalise on the popularity of the character, but it's hardly out of place or in direct contradiction with the initial intent.

    * For those that don't know, the novelisation includes this description of Fett: "Boba Fett. A human bounty hunter, Fett was known for his extremely ruthless methods. He was dressed in a weapon-covered, armoured spacesuit, the kind worn by a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars. A few braided scalps completed his unsavoury image."
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  4. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, shoehorned is not quite the word here, since he clearly had a history, it just wasn't relevant to the story of ROTJ. It became more relevant in the PT, especially considering that Fett had been identified by armor associated with commandos in the Clone Wars (I recall that on several bits, including the novel, as well as action figure fact cards, and the like).

    Also, I don't think being the source of clones is "shoehorning." YMMV and all that jazz.
     
  5. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was not relevant in TESB, either, since Lucas did not explore any part of a history for Fett on screen (the opposite of what was done for any OT references Kenobi or Vader made about themselves or the past, which was the heart of any PT that would be produced). In 1980 and '83, to the target audience--the movie audience, the majority would never read Glut's novel, action figure backing cards, the ESB poster magazine, Bantha Tracks, or anything else. To this group, he was just "mystery man who hunts Solo, and takes him away" as he was meant to be.

    When Lucas decided to make the prequels, there was no on-screen obligation (from anything said or seen in the OT) to even add any Fett-related characters at all. The clone plot was such a separate matter (tied more to knowing what Palpatine was guaranteed to do with them) that anyone could have been the source, so again, Fett (both) seems shoehorned in because Lucas responded to the "cult of Fett" that popped up in the years between the end of the OT and into the 1990s.
     
  6. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    I see your point even if I don't agree.
     
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  7. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Fett, and those old descriptions are also why people assumed for years that the Clone Wars was about the Jedi fighting against some group of clones.
    When Attack of the Clones was coming out they were quite obviously a Stormtrooper predecessor only made the idea more ominous in the promotional materials for that film (since they tended to use the clones as the backdrop for Count Dooku and Jango Fett. Fett known early on to be an antagonist in the film, and Dooku holding a red lightsaber associated with Sith Lord characters). That is was shifted to the clones being the Jedi's trusted soldiers fighting for the Republic was a spin people were not expecting until the other shoe dropped by the end of Attack of the Clones.
     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really don't understand the appeal of Boba Fett. In the films, he never did anything remotely worthy of all the love some fans have for him--I know he is expanded upon in the novels, but just looking at the films he's barely one rung above an extra. Then in The Clone Wars he's just a whiny child, which makes him thoroughly unlikeable.

    The Ewoks annoy me because of how they make the Empire look. The Empire is a massive force with the power to destroy worlds and dominate the known galaxy, but in ROTJ it is made to look like a bunch of bumbling fools--after their defeat at the hands of the Rebels in ANH you'd think they'd be far more wary of dealing with guerrilla tactics.
     
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  9. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep. He was just the "mystery man" and never intended to be some major character, which explains why he was killed off with little fanfare (to the audience, or to characters) in ROTJ.

    Well, we know Lucas would no longer use Wookies for the idea of a "primitive" culture taking down a technologically superior one, so why not just make the inhabitants of Endor a Bossk-like species? Some reptilian group that is sufficiently backwater, but large and obviously strong. That would have sold the final battle and added some needed brutality to justify the Empire's defeat.
     
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  10. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    One can be a massive force and capable and still loose due to unfamiliar terrain or tactics. See the British against the Indians and the American colonists, or (and more apt based upon Lucas' notes) the Viet Cong vs. the Americans.
     
  11. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But they couldn't bombard the surface with laser fire from orbit.
     
  12. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    A bit of a barn burner attitude, isn't it?
     
  13. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They blew up a planet of billions as a demonstration, whose to say how many Imperial personnel were on Alderaan at that time.
     
  14. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    That was meant as a demonstration for deterrence, not a battle tactic. You don't send an entire legion of your best troops and then nuke the planet. Especially when you're trying to protect and Imperial installation on said planet or moon in this instance.

    As I said, barn burner, and not fulfilling their purpose at Endor at all.
     
  15. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In Rogue One, they did carry out two far more precise attacks with the Death Star, they could do the same again or utilise their star destroyers to target Ewok camps from orbit and obliterate them, the tiny Rebel strike force would then be overpowered, captured and executed, whilst the Death Star II takes out the Alliance fleet.
     
  16. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    As Luke noted with the Emperor "Your overconfidence is your weakness." The Emperor did not consider the Ewoks a threat, much like Tarkin did not regard the Rebel fighters a threat.

    These tactics perhaps make sense in hindsight, but neither of us are overconfident megalomaniacs so I'm going with the fact that they didn't see it necessary.
     
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  17. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In the novel (and deleted scenes), The Emperor orders the local Moff to blow up Endor moon if the shield falls. To spike Luke mostly. The Moff hesitates for a moment before giving the order to turn the station towards the moon. This is supposedly why the Death Star II was pointed at Endor when it blew up, since it was not pointed that way at the start of the battle. This is also supposedly why there is a smaller secondary explosion on the superlaser just before the whole thing blows up. The weapon was firing, but the reactors were gone, and it blew, followed by the rest of the explosion.
     
  18. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    The Ewoks were a huge mistake. VERY juvenile, they insulted the intelligence of every fan over 10 years old. (I was 15). Should have been the Wookee planet, then we might have had a battle like the one we saw in ROTS.
    Boba Fett is simply a dull character, I don't get the cult around him unless you include non-canon stuff. Jango Fett was FAR more interesting and even had a better looking suit.
     
  19. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    How? I was 11 when I first saw it, and have watched it since then. Not insulted here.
     
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  20. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, an orbital bombardment of Endor *while their shield generator is still down there* makes zero sense for the Empire, and after it's taken down things were just too chaotic to do anything before the reactor blew.
    I guess you could say not taking the time to wipe out all of the local Ewok tribes was a mistake, but that's entirely the point: the Imperials underestimated them to the point that they didn't even consider them worth killing. They're just animals with pointy sticks to them.

    They probably blew the ever living hell out of a Gorax or three, because those things are obviously going to be a threat to ground operations, but they probably never even stopped to consider exactly *how* such a seemingly harmless stone age tech species coexisted with literal giant monsters...and why there were huge piled up logs and rope scattered all over the forest. So yeah, Ewoks are the furry Fremen of the Star Wars universe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
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