I was watching TNG on netflix last night at the end of the episode (Evolution) they just say Dr. Stubbs used his influence to get a planet (!!?) for the nanites to inhabit. I wonder why the kind of just glossed over the fact that there's going to be a planet of those little guys creating a society down there. I'm surprised they never went back to them, although the borg could be argued as being pretty similar. Any body know if they were referenced in any books or anything?
Evolution, Nanites?
- Thread starter trekkier
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The UFP is full of planets with interesting folks down there - too many stories to be returned to, I guess! Although the nanites were referenced in "Best of Both Worlds", as a possible anti-Borg weapon, and there's a passing mention in "Meld" as well.
Several of the "Shatnerverse" novels mention the smart goo, as do a couple of DS9 and VOY novels. See here:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Nanite
Timo Saloniemi
Several of the "Shatnerverse" novels mention the smart goo, as do a couple of DS9 and VOY novels. See here:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Nanite
Timo Saloniemi
Always pondered this point..firstly, the nanites, while evolved, still required technology...where were they going to put them where pre-existing tech existed they could use? I suppose you could argue they simply evolved into a shapeless form..like the aforementioned :gray goo", but it didn't seem they had reached that point yet.
Obviously STNG wrote this as an isolated incident, because the real implications of such tech would have changed the foundation of the Federation and it's tech. This is something the new series should tackle.
Obviously STNG wrote this as an isolated incident, because the real implications of such tech would have changed the foundation of the Federation and it's tech. This is something the new series should tackle.
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Isn't utility fog a definite step down from replicators? Nanites may have been a promising venue for the Federation (or perhaps pre-UFP Earth) once, but the time for that should be past now. Replicators do it all faster, with more precision, and without danger of runaways and contamination (at least if your replicator installation job isn't handled by a Kazon).
Of course, replicators may be based on nanites. But they appear more sophisticated than that, which is only to be expected if they're related to that most magical of treknologies, the transporter.
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, replicators may be based on nanites. But they appear more sophisticated than that, which is only to be expected if they're related to that most magical of treknologies, the transporter.
Timo Saloniemi
Utility fog, if each nanite is a learning AI would be an extension and expansion of simple nanites working as a community. Replicators are very limited, and require a lot of power. If anything replicators could create programmable matter or nanites from raw materials but a replicator isn't a "smart AI" in it's own right, capable of function as a wide set of tools with a wide set of functions to go along with it's intelligence.
The replicator is as microscopic or macroscopic as it needs to be, as regards its products. As a machine, though, it's decidedly macroscopic. It doesn't follow that it would be dumb, or inherently lacking in AI abilities: its forte is that it can be hooked up to any level of AI, and to any source of power or raw matter, without needing to squeeze such versatility into microscopic dimensions.
Individual nanites run into physical limitations soon enough, and there's only so much they can do with collective intelligence without tying themselves down to the chore of being a big brain and nothing else. Replicators just need an extra isolinear chip or five inserted (or replicated) to get an equivalent boost in their sentience. And as demonstrated by the exocomps, they can act as a wide set of tools when need be.
Timo Saloniemi
Individual nanites run into physical limitations soon enough, and there's only so much they can do with collective intelligence without tying themselves down to the chore of being a big brain and nothing else. Replicators just need an extra isolinear chip or five inserted (or replicated) to get an equivalent boost in their sentience. And as demonstrated by the exocomps, they can act as a wide set of tools when need be.
Timo Saloniemi
I've read a lot of sci fi stories where nanites or self replicating machines spread throughout space over a long period of time and basically take over the entire universe. In stories without warp drive its like the only way to conquer vast distances of space and make contact with aliens, but the creators of the nanites usually die out before that happens. They really glossed over the impact of creating these in the resolution in this episode.
Yup, the original idea stemmed from "Von Neumann machines". They could populate a whole galaxy the size of the milky way in 500,000 to 3 million years(a mere blip in cosmological history) WITHOUT warp drive ever being necessary.
Why bother with a creating machine when you ARE a creating machine yourself?
There will be materials and states of matter a nano-swarm wouldn't be able to replicate, and therefore a replicator, with proper raw materials handy wouldn't become obsolete, but the swarm would be much more sophisticated and useful than just a replicator.
This thread reminds me of the 'replicator' "species" in Stargate...
Well guess who got there first
As usual, most sci-fi tells us evolving AI is inherently evil as with Stargate. "Evolution" showed us this does't have to be the case.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/s...ugh-starshot-yuri-milner-stephen-hawking.html
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These things will actually be rather large
A true Self Replicating Machine would probably mass out to 100 tons or so--an HLLV payload
http://www.rfreitas.com/Astro/TerraformSRS1983.htm
The problem with very small things is that you swap ruggedness for complexity.
radiodurans is tough: http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_02/deinococcus.shtml
--but it doesn't do much.
Waterbears get by because they are small.
But a newly fertilized egg cell can--in about 20 years--become an aerospace engineer student.
But put that egg cell in the dirt--and it dies, while the other two live.
Brownian motion shells you at small scales. Static cling holds you fast like neutron star gravity--or flings you away from a desired target. A droplet of water is an ocean of molasses. Propellaers won't work--maybe a whiplike tail from a sperm cell.
A dust mite is godzilla, a dust mote is an asteroid--and heat is death.
I think people like the idea of nano pixie dust in that you wouldn't need large rockets to build a moonbase. Just shoot some utility fog at the moon and let it build things for you.
I don't think that is ever coming. Want a moon base? Launch a front end loader with an atomic pile atop Sea Dragon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)
A true Self Replicating Machine would probably mass out to 100 tons or so--an HLLV payload
http://www.rfreitas.com/Astro/TerraformSRS1983.htm
The problem with very small things is that you swap ruggedness for complexity.
radiodurans is tough: http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_02/deinococcus.shtml
--but it doesn't do much.
Waterbears get by because they are small.
But a newly fertilized egg cell can--in about 20 years--become an aerospace engineer student.
But put that egg cell in the dirt--and it dies, while the other two live.
Brownian motion shells you at small scales. Static cling holds you fast like neutron star gravity--or flings you away from a desired target. A droplet of water is an ocean of molasses. Propellaers won't work--maybe a whiplike tail from a sperm cell.
A dust mite is godzilla, a dust mote is an asteroid--and heat is death.
I think people like the idea of nano pixie dust in that you wouldn't need large rockets to build a moonbase. Just shoot some utility fog at the moon and let it build things for you.
I don't think that is ever coming. Want a moon base? Launch a front end loader with an atomic pile atop Sea Dragon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)
Honestly, that general question applies to a hell of a lot of episodes.
Unless the nanites learnt that by attaching themselves to unwilling biological subjects they can use macro technology to spread. Especially if they collectively work towards controlling said biological organisms instead of just hitching a ride.
Just imagine that, a spreading meta organism of various species coordinated by symbiotic nano tech, constantly searching for new hosts and new means to overcome resistance.
of course that resistance would eventually become.....
Just imagine that, a spreading meta organism of various species coordinated by symbiotic nano tech, constantly searching for new hosts and new means to overcome resistance.
of course that resistance would eventually become.....
True, I actually called them "micro machines" but they'll be bigger than microscopic. Still the general idea to follow...and these would be really early version of the idea. With some progression (and mind you I don't even feel stereotypical nano-type machines as we usually see will be available till 2030-2050) they might be our first try at star seeding.
Reminds me again of this Lem story with legitimate micromachines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invincible
Reminds me again of this Lem story with legitimate micromachines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invincible
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