Evidence of SNW being a possible alternate timeline from TOS

[TRON JA307020]

Im not saying everything has to be perfect. But before kurtzman Trek things made more sense. Technology advancement was more clearly defined. You could clearly see the advancements from STE, TOS to the TOS movies to TNG. In Kurtzman Trek the tech all seems blurred. The characterizations of characters were for the most part consistent pre Kurtzman. In Kurtzman Trek even Picard didn't seem like himself. He no longer had that commanding presence even when he was in charge. Maybe it was age but even his outlook on starfleet had soured. No optimism left in him. Just felt really off. Season 3 was better but it was too late. They really shouldn't have given Patrick what he wanted. I really just wish the would hsve set a series just a few years past the late 24th early 25th centuries and created a whole new crew and ship. Basically like they did for tng.

 

[Tuskin38]

In Kurtzman Trek the tech all seems blurred.

It really doesn't.

I really just wish the would hsve set a series just a few years past the late 24th early 25th centuries and created a whole new crew and ship

I agree.

 

[HotRod]

You could clearly see the advancements from STE, TOS to the TOS movies to TNG.

I remember what it was like in 2001 when Enterprise was first revealed. There was constant bitching about the Akira class or how everything on the show looked more advanced than TOS. Never mind the arguments about phasers in the 22nd century because of one line from Worf, or cloaking devices, or Klingon first contact, etc, etc.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

In Kurtzman Trek the tech all seems blurred.

Not really. With maybe the exception of the Spore Drive, which was explicitly said to be highly advanced and was later discarded and classified, nothing we really saw in Discovery or Strange New Worlds was more advanced than what was seen later on chronological. Certainly nothing that couldn't simply be explained by the shows having a updated visual aesthetic, which has been long established by now.

In Kurtzman Trek even Picard didn't seem like himself.

People change.

He no longer had that commanding presence even when he was in charge.

People age.

 

[The Wormhole]

You could clearly see the advancements from STE, TOS to the TOS movies to TNG.

See, this is exactly what I keep talking about in these kind of discussions. Twenty years ago, people were complaining Enterprise was the show which looked more advanced than TOS or even the 24th century shows and that it had to take place in an alternate timeline in order for anything to make sense. Yet now, it clearly fits in a pre-TOS time period and there's a clear and definitive technological development from there to TOS and to TNG. Twenty years from now people will be saying Kurtzman's shows fit in perfectly with canon and the current Trek shows will be the ones that look wrong and must take place in an alternate timeline.

 

[Tuskin38]

Doug Drexler who designed the NX-01 and is a huge TOS fan even thinks the NX-01 looks less advanced, because of all the exposed technology and prominent hull panelling. He follows Matt Jefferies philosophy when it comes to detailing.

 

[Starflight]

See, this is exactly what I keep talking about in these kind of discussions. Twenty years ago, people were complaining Enterprise was the show which looked more advanced than TOS or even the 24th century shows and that it had to take place in an alternate timeline in order for anything to make sense. Yet now, it clearly fits in a pre-TOS time period and there's a clear and definitive technological development from there to TOS and to TNG. Twenty years from now people will be saying Kurtzman's shows fit in perfectly with canon and the current Trek shows will be the ones that look wrong and must take place in an alternate timeline.

This is true but the thing that's interesting to me is that the criticisms each step of the way generally aren't wrong. A lot of what people said about TNG through ENT during their release was largely correct IMO, even if the shows have all now been collectively rehabilitated into a sort of supposed pre-Kurtzman golden age.

 

[HotRod]

Hell, if you want to talk about technological progression, SNW slots in rather nicely between the NX-01 and the Refit.

If we go with the idea that the SNW Enterprise IS the TOS Enterprise, simply viewed through an upgraded visual aesthetic, which seems to be the intent, It's kind of perfect.

 

[fireproof78]

Technology advancement was more clearly defined

Except when it wasn't.

The phasers were the same.

The warp drive was all over the place. Voyager is not close to consistent with TOS.

ENTERPRISE was completely backwards, feeling like TNG vs. pre TOS.

In Kurtzman Trek even Picard didn't seem like himself.

Can't imagine why? It's not like several Wars might impact a person or some nonsense like that. It's almost like the great and vaunted DS9 and the terrible Nemesis all had consequences to the people. I know that consequences in Trek are anathema but it was bound to happen eventually.

 

[TRON JA307020]

See, this is exactly what I keep talking about in these kind of discussions. Twenty years ago, people were complaining Enterprise was the show which looked more advanced than TOS or even the 24th century shows and that it had to take place in an alternate timeline in order for anything to make sense. Yet now, it clearly fits in a pre-TOS time period and there's a clear and definitive technological development from there to TOS and to TNG. Twenty years from now people will be saying Kurtzman's shows fit in perfectly with canon and the current Trek shows will be the ones that look wrong and must take place in an alternate timeline.

i recall once In A Mirror Darkly came out the complaining stopped or slowed a lot. The TOS era connies were clearly more advanced than the NX 01 by far. That episode brought a lot of people back on board.

 

[Airmandan]

Hell, if you want to talk about technological progression, SNW slots in rather nicely between the NX-01 and the Refit.
View attachment 54613
If we go with the idea that the SNW Enterprise IS the TOS Enterprise, simply viewed through an upgraded visual aesthetic, which seems to be the intent, It's kind of perfect.

I know I'm one of the outliers, but I actually like the SNW Enterprise design and agree that it has a clear line of design aesthetics that match. Given what we saw in Lower decks with them removing the ships outer hull, I could very easily see the SNW getting a hull update that makes it more of the white that better matches the TOS coloration.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

I don't know what a Thermian is, nor do I need everything lined up like historical documents. Just at a point in life where I'm going to view these things through a lens that makes sense for me.

You may or may not enjoy Galaxy Quest, then (ymmv).

I sure wish I could watch it again for the first time

 

[BillJ]

Hell, if you want to talk about technological progression, SNW slots in rather nicely between the NX-01 and the Refit.
View attachment 54613
If we go with the idea that the SNW Enterprise IS the TOS Enterprise, simply viewed through an upgraded visual aesthetic, which seems to be the intent, It's kind of perfect.

Honestly, part of what I find off-putting about the whole thing. We’re trading imagination for conformity.

 

[BillJ]

You may or may not enjoy Galaxy Quest, then (ymmv).

I sure wish I could watch it again for the first time

Is something I honestly was never interested in.

 

[fireproof78]

Honestly, part of what I find off-putting about the whole thing. We’re trading imagination for conformity.

Yup. It's more sterile and must do Is and cross Ts.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Using modern techniques to create fictional technology doesn't mean the fictional tech is more advanced than the version seen previously.

 

[HotRod]

Honestly, part of what I find off-putting about the whole thing. We’re trading imagination for conformity.

I actually see it the opposite way.

Treating the SNW Enterprise as the TOS Enterprise isn't about conformity, it's about preserving the original creative intent. The TOS Enterprise looked the way it did because of the limitations of 1960s television production. SNW isn't replacing that design with something safer or more conventional, it's using modern tools to visualize the same ship and the same world in greater detail.

And that's coming from someone who absolutely adores the original Enterprise. It's my favourite version of the ship. I love everything about it, but I can love that design while also acknowledging that it's very much a product of the 1960s. The painted backdrops, blinking lights, and plywood sets were never the point. They were the best tools available to convey a futuristic world to the audience of the time.

If anything, insisting that every button, corridor, and visual effect must remain frozen exactly as they appeared in 1966 seems more restrictive. The imagination was always there. We just have better ways to represent it now. To me, SNW isn't replacing the Enterprise I grew up loving. It's simply presenting that same ship through a modern production lens, much as TOS itself would have done had it been produced today.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I actually see it the opposite way.

Treating the SNW Enterprise as the TOS Enterprise isn't about conformity, it's about preserving the original creative intent. The TOS Enterprise looked the way it did because of the limitations of 1960s television production. SNW isn't replacing that design with something safer or more conventional, it's using modern tools to visualize the same ship and the same world in greater detail.

And that's coming from someone who absolutely adores the original Enterprise. It's my favourite version of the ship. I love everything about it, but I can love that design while also acknowledging that it's very much a product of the 1960s. The painted backdrops, blinking lights, and plywood sets were never the point. They were the best tools available to convey a futuristic world to the audience of the time.

If anything, insisting that every button, corridor, and visual effect must remain frozen exactly as they appeared in 1966 seems more restrictive. The imagination was always there. We just have better ways to represent it now. To me, SNW isn't replacing the Enterprise I grew up loving. It's simply presenting that same ship through a modern production lens, much as TOS itself would have done had it been produced today.

It didnt have to be frozen but they could have gotten things like the bridge size and viewscreen correct. Basically a smaller bridge size and stations that correlatee to the cage or tos. Regular viewscreen similar to the cage which actually looked like a more primitive version of the D viewscreen. The winky blinkies where they should be. No more neon style LEDs lighting the bridge everywhere. Somehow kurtzman trek kept those stupid things from the 23rd, 24th, 25th abd 32nd centuries. Give the bridges a proper warm lighting. I couldn't stand those strips.

 

[HotRod]

It didnt have to be frozen but they could have gotten things like the bridge size and viewscreen correct. Basically s smaller bridge size and stations that correlatee to the cage or tos. Regular viewscreen similar to the cage which actually looked like a more primitive version of the D viewscreen. The winky blinkies where they should be. No more neon style LEDs lighting the bridge everywhere. Somehow kurtzman trek kept those stupid things from the 23rd, 24th, 25th abd 32nd centuries. Give the bridges a proper warm lighting. I couldn't stand those strips.

Sorry, I consider the SNW bridge to be one of the best in the entire franchise and that's a hill I'm willing to die on. I think it's gorgeous, functional and I really wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Airmandan]

Too much shiny floors. Why everything has to be a polished reflective surface is beyond me. God help the cleaning crews that have to polish that

 

[Tuskin38]

The TOS Enterprise looked the way it did because of the limitations of 1960s television production

The exterior, no. Jefferies designed it that way intentionally as he thought it was futuristic, it had nothing to do with limitations.

God help the cleaning crews that have to polish that

They have robots for that.