Even if Kruge defeated Kirk...
- Thread starter indycar
- Start date
There would've been a delay to figure out how to operate the BOP and that delay would've had them all fried.
I doubt they'd just give up. But also, notice that when Kirk and Spock get on the ship, Maltz is already the prisoner of the Enterprise crew, he wasn't doing anything. In fact they had phasers pointed at him. If Kruge showed up instead of Kirk and Spock, they would just have to shoot Kruge and possibly Maltz, if he attacked also.
I am thinking Kruge would have been so Supremely Confident in his abilities as a Klingon, and utterly secure in his skills as a Warrior, that he would not have thought about anything but Qu'Pla for the outcome.
Plus, he had some killin' to do, blood lust and all...
Wouldn't it have been cool if they named Kruge's targ the Klingon translation of "Einstein"?
Plus, he had some killin' to do, blood lust and all...
Wouldn't it have been cool if they named Kruge's targ the Klingon translation of "Einstein"?
Difficulty: Names aren't technically supposed to be translated between languages. For example, just because Ricardo is the equivalent of Richard in Spanish doesn't mean it would be okay for Spanish people to assume they can call me Ricardo.
BUT, I don't recall them ever using ANY name for the targ. So for all we know, his name WAS Einstein.
I very consistently call my friend Eddie Ehh-wad-doh
You will never truly understand general relativity until you see the equations in the original Klingon.
If I see Klingons facing worse than 1:20 odds in taking somebody else's starship with just token hesitation, I won't stop to wonder whether they'd consider better than 1:3 odds in holding or retaking their own ship "excellent" or "embarrassingly unchallenging for a proud warrior"...
No, the first set of heroes has not yet defeated Maltz, not necessarily: his gun appears in Saavik's hand only after Kirk has gotten the drop on him with Kruge's gun. Were Maltz Saavik's prisoner already, wouldn't the heroes all be engaged in trying to rescue Kirk and Spock, rather than all standing together as if still being covered by Maltz' gun? The impression is that the ship was under the control of Maltz when Kirk did his Kruge impersonation and got beamed up. Whether Maltz lost control after this but before Kirk opened the door, we can't readily tell.
Nor can we tell whether there were more Klingons on the ship. There could have been a transporter operator, whom Kirk surprised just like people materializing on Kirk's platform sometimes surprised his team; there could even remain further Klingons after Kirk takes the bridge.
Timo Saloniemi
No, the first set of heroes has not yet defeated Maltz, not necessarily: his gun appears in Saavik's hand only after Kirk has gotten the drop on him with Kruge's gun. Were Maltz Saavik's prisoner already, wouldn't the heroes all be engaged in trying to rescue Kirk and Spock, rather than all standing together as if still being covered by Maltz' gun? The impression is that the ship was under the control of Maltz when Kirk did his Kruge impersonation and got beamed up. Whether Maltz lost control after this but before Kirk opened the door, we can't readily tell.
Nor can we tell whether there were more Klingons on the ship. There could have been a transporter operator, whom Kirk surprised just like people materializing on Kirk's platform sometimes surprised his team; there could even remain further Klingons after Kirk takes the bridge.
Timo Saloniemi
Kirk pointed his own phaser at Maltz. But you're right, Maltz has the rest prisoner until Kirk shows up.
According to the novelization, Kruge's pet is a Warrigul, not a Targ(it still isn't called anything).
My two cents.
According to the novelization, Kruge's pet is a Warrigul, not a Targ(it still isn't called anything).
My two cents.
What's suggestive to me is that Maltz is on his own. He can control the transporter remotely. Maltz expected to beam up the other lot and had them covered. It took Kirk's surprise arrival to turn the tables.
If Kirk and Kruge had both died on the planet, Maltz would've either had to kill the prisoners outright or lock them away so he can devote his attention to leaving the burning planet.
If Kirk and Kruge had both died on the planet, Maltz would've either had to kill the prisoners outright or lock them away so he can devote his attention to leaving the burning planet.
Well forgetting what we know later - what's the answer for a 1984 Klingon I wonder?
Which is Aboriginal for "dingo", the Australian wild dog.
The SPFX crew called the puppet Fifi Rebozo (according to "Cinefex").
I like the idea that Maltz was still on the ship when they took back off from Vulcan, and ended up stranded on Earth in the late 1980's by getting off the ship while no one was paying attention. 
I don't know... I don't see McCoy or Scotty being much help in physical combat against Klingon warriors.
And Saavik proved how useless she could be by refusing to use her Vulcan strength -- and military combat training -- while her compartively weaker and untrained cohort, David, was being gutted.
So, methinks it'd really be Sulu and Chekov against Kruge and Maltz -- both of whom were armed with disruptors and, I would guess, bladed weapons as well. Not exactly a fair fight...
But, assuming they DID take over the ship, I'd really wonder who among them would be daring enough to take the BOP back to the 1980s to save Earth.
(I've actually wondered, from time to time, what became of the Federation in the "unaltered" timeline in which George and Gracie were never brought to the future and, presumably, Earth was destroyed.)
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What's relevant in this case is that Kruge didn't *expect* to be defeated at this level. His first plan (taking over Grissom) didn't work out when his gunner had a "lucky shot" that destroyed the whole ship.
His second plan (capturing a Genesis scientist) actually did work out -- he got David Marcus and Saavik on board while the "fighting Kirk" issue was still being resolved. And he did have pride enough that just his little band of soldiers could take over what he assumed to be a fully crewed Enterprise. He didn't expect an empty ship or a captain willing to give the destruct order.
He "had" to keep fighting Kirk just out of pride and "honor", whatever that means to a Klingon. I can see his idea that "he had to kill Kirk because Kirk had to be killed" before they could go on about the business of figuring out how Genesis worked. That was the same motivation that Khan had demonstrated in the movie before, after all.
Supporting information: after Kirk killed Kruge, he ordered himself and Spock to be beamed up -- addressing Maltz directly, in Klingon. His assumption was that the BoP was still being run by the Klingons (he couldn't know there was just one Klingon left). And that assumption was apparently correct, since nobody else besides Maltz, to our knowledge, actually speaks Klingon. (Except for Saavik, if you believe the novelization. I don't, necessarily.)
His second plan (capturing a Genesis scientist) actually did work out -- he got David Marcus and Saavik on board while the "fighting Kirk" issue was still being resolved. And he did have pride enough that just his little band of soldiers could take over what he assumed to be a fully crewed Enterprise. He didn't expect an empty ship or a captain willing to give the destruct order.
He "had" to keep fighting Kirk just out of pride and "honor", whatever that means to a Klingon. I can see his idea that "he had to kill Kirk because Kirk had to be killed" before they could go on about the business of figuring out how Genesis worked. That was the same motivation that Khan had demonstrated in the movie before, after all.
Supporting information: after Kirk killed Kruge, he ordered himself and Spock to be beamed up -- addressing Maltz directly, in Klingon. His assumption was that the BoP was still being run by the Klingons (he couldn't know there was just one Klingon left). And that assumption was apparently correct, since nobody else besides Maltz, to our knowledge, actually speaks Klingon. (Except for Saavik, if you believe the novelization. I don't, necessarily.)
Not too surprising, since Targs weren't invented until the first season of TNG, three years later.
