Errors and Inconsistencies - Stretching Credulity [SPOILERS]

[donners22]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

My two biggest problems are:

- The distance Kirk and Scotty supposedly transported from the planet (apparently hours after Spock set Kirk adrift, travelling at warp all the while)

- The sheer ridiculousness of a person with three years' experience being made captain of the flagship at the end of the film, with outcast Scotty, fellow cadet Bones and 17-year-old Chekov all in senior positions on said flagship.

 

[Destructor]

Aspects of the film that stretched credulity (spoilers, obv)

Uhm, as I said to a friend last night, you certainly get your $20 worth. From effects to cool scenes to laughs, it's all there, never a dull moment.

But the crappy Nokia product placement being the ONLY flaw? Please. Look, I liked the movie, but allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment:

So Spock ejects Kirk from the Enterprise (?!?) and puts him on a planet from which you can see Vulcan. Oookay, I can suspend all reason and rationality for that for a moment. In fact, both those things are fine, although I thought it was a really odd response from Spock- why not just throw Kirk in the brig?

But then, he randomly wanders into Original Recipe Spock who has been placed there by Nero. WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THIS HAPPENING? I can even suspend disbelief that they also happened to be 14km from a Federation outpost, but THEN they somehow rejigger their transporter to transport to a ship, going at Warp on the way to Earth, presumably QUITE A BIT OF DISTANCE from the ice planet by the time Spock and Kirk trekked through 14km of icy terrain. Doesn't the ability to transport for larger distances than ship-to-surface open up a rather enormous fucking can of worms? Like, doesn't it obviate the need to have starships at all?

Oh and I just remembered the FUCKED UP conversation on the bridge where the bridge crew are all like: "So this is a new timeline... our destinies are not set!"

Uhm... YOU ONLY THINK YOUR DESTINY IS SET IF YOU'RE FROM THE FUTURE. This was a ridiculous conversation! Who would have this? It'd be like me saying to one of you: "Hey, did you know my destiny is not set?" It's not news! It's only news to someone like original recipe Spock who is looking at his younger self. In fact it would have been a great conversation to have with OR Spock. But to just have it amongst themselves made NO SENSE.

Like, I thought it was good, hell, I'm even going to go and see it again I liked it so much, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it didn't have some rather large plot holes.

 

[seigezunt]

Re: Aspects of the film that stretched credulity (spoilers, obv)

I like the term "Original Recipe Spock."

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: Aspects of the film that stretched credulity (spoilers, obv)

How was the Nokia product placement a flaw? What was the big deal with that?

It was as realistic as the budweiser mention, which I thought was appropriate and done well.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Re: Aspects of the film that stretched credulity (spoilers, obv)

Naturally Spock didn't want Kirk to freeze/starve to death on Delta Vega so the escape pod was programmed to land near the Starfleet base.

 

[The Evil Dead]

Re: Aspects of the film that stretched credulity (spoilers, obv)

RE: Nokia, I thought it was clever...If you're gonna have product placement in your Star Trek movie, well, may as well put in the ANTIQUE car.

 

[Jono]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

Perhaps somebody found out after the Narada incident? I forget - was the fact Nero was Romulan mentioned by the Kelvin crew explicitly or was it only mentioned when talking about the event in the past tense?

I can't remember if anyone on the Kelvin says anything in that scene either. It is possible that after the events, which I'll assume someone makes it off with a visual record of Nero's first mate that the Vulcan's come clean about the Romulans purely due to the threat the Naranda would pose...apparently.

So the Vulcan's own up and that is why Pike hows that Vulcans and Romulans have a common ancestry. Then some of the design changes for the Enterprise could be attributed to Starfleet thinking the attack on the Naranda is a prelude to an invasion and adjust their designs to be more combat capable or whatever.

Given how amazingly awesome red matter is, why did Spock need 100 lt from the stuff when all he needed for the mission was a single drop?

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: Aspects of the film that stretched credulity (spoilers, obv)

Merging this with the other thread. Stand by...

 

[npsf3000]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

My two biggest problems are:

- The distance Kirk and Scotty supposedly transported from the planet (apparently hours after Spock set Kirk adrift, travelling at warp all the while)

- The sheer ridiculousness of a person with three years' experience being made captain of the flagship at the end of the film, with outcast Scotty, fellow cadet Bones and 17-year-old Chekov all in senior positions on said flagship.

1)... I don't know how to answer this other than they might have been going very slowly (just faster than speed of light). Why? Maybe cause of damage or because they were in a solar system?

2) You just had a dozen of your best ships blown up, and this kid manages to go in single-handedly, defy his superior officer and save the day. Further-more he saves pike (now admiral). In war, attrition plays a key role in promotion. Also commanding officers can have a voice in their men, most of which had already proved to be competent.


On the kirk meet old spock thing.

Both captains wanted their prisoners to survive, and to see vulcan be destroyed.

So where better to put them in the closest planet to vulcan (which is mentioned in the books at least to be so close to appear as a big moon on vulcan).

And of course, spock gets put near the colony so he can watch the other planets be destroyed.

Kirk has autopilot to do that for him.

 

[Logical Leopard]

Re: Aspects of the film that stretched credulity (spoilers, obv)

How was the Nokia product placement a flaw? What was the big deal with that?

It was as realistic as the budweiser mention, which I thought was appropriate and done well.

No, that wasn't a flaw. The flaw was having Kirk listening to "Sabotage" while he was driving the car. If Kirk were to pick any Beastie Boys song, it'd probably be "Intergalactic". That's more future friendly...

 

[Logical Leopard]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

My two biggest problems are:

- The distance Kirk and Scotty supposedly transported from the planet (apparently hours after Spock set Kirk adrift, travelling at warp all the while)

- The sheer ridiculousness of a person with three years' experience being made captain of the flagship at the end of the film, with outcast Scotty, fellow cadet Bones and 17-year-old Chekov all in senior positions on said flagship.

1) Yeah, that first one is a little bit of a stretch. Unless, OldSpock, who is from the TNG era, programmed in some futuristic changes because he's from an era in which interplanetary beaming technology (which I believe, was a plot of a TNG episode once) is functional. Maybe not utilized, due to some sort of Federation equivalent FDA standars, but possible. Eh, that's still a stretch, but...

2) This is a stretch, but it's easier to justify. Kirk is a genius hotshot, as Pike stated, he's got a great pedigree, and he had just finished saving the lives of everyone in that room, and on the planet. Starfleet isn't necessarily the US Navy, so while we look at it as "jumping ranks", they may think it's more like taking a qualified individual and putting him in a position he's qualified for.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

No, that's wrong. You collapse the Earth into a black hole, and it'll have the same gravitational attraction on nearby objects as it does now. It's the mass that it contains, not how dense it is.

The university of Illinois agrees with me. So does Nasa.

Ummm....what? The second link says exactly the same thing I did:

But contrary to popular myth, a black hole is not a cosmic vacuum cleaner. If our Sun was suddenly replaced with a black hole of the same mass, the Earth's orbit around the Sun would be unchanged.

You replace an object with a black hole of the same mass, surrounding matter does *not* start falling in any more than it was before. GMm/r^2. Where in that equation does the density of the object pulling at you come into play?

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

My two biggest problems are:

- The distance Kirk and Scotty supposedly transported from the planet (apparently hours after Spock set Kirk adrift, travelling at warp all the while)

- The sheer ridiculousness of a person with three years' experience being made captain of the flagship at the end of the film, with outcast Scotty, fellow cadet Bones and 17-year-old Chekov all in senior positions on said flagship.

1) Yeah, that first one is a little bit of a stretch. Unless, OldSpock, who is from the TNG era, programmed in some futuristic changes because he's from an era in which interplanetary beaming technology (which I believe, was a plot of a TNG episode once) is functional. Maybe not utilized, due to some sort of Federation equivalent FDA standars, but possible. Eh, that's still a stretch, but...

2) This is a stretch, but it's easier to justify. Kirk is a genius hotshot, as Pike stated, he's got a great pedigree, and he had just finished saving the lives of everyone in that room, and on the planet. Starfleet isn't necessarily the US Navy, so while we look at it as "jumping ranks", they may think it's more like taking a qualified individual and putting him in a position he's qualified for.

On your second point, I agree. McCoy and Kirk graduated from the Academy during the same time period, it seemed, and McCoy was fit to be a LCDR and CMO.

 

[miraclefan]

I figured that NU-SPOCK just wanted this rebel (Kirk) off of the ship. Plus I think his human side was showing there in that he had alot of hate (or disgust) for kirk.

 

[Basill]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

The flashback in the mind meld shows him watching it up in the sky - the implication is that the planet is close enough to witness the destruction visually. Yes, it's pretty unlikely - and if true would put Delta Vega very much on the endangered list under the Next to a Black Hole category - but that's the explanation in the movie for how Spock saw the destruction.

One of the biggest throw-me-out-of-my-induced-fiction-moments. Why did they have to call it Delta Vega? Pure nostalgia? Delta Vega in visual range of Vulcan is simply ridiculous being that the planet was near the outskirts of Federation space in TOS. It also appeared as if they arrived at Vulcan in mere minutes of leaving Earth. But that might have just been me missing something. Everything was so jumpy I could see that happening.

 

[mynameisgorn]

Re: Errors and Inconsistencies... [SPOILERS]

The flashback in the mind meld shows him watching it up in the sky - the implication is that the planet is close enough to witness the destruction visually. Yes, it's pretty unlikely - and if true would put Delta Vega very much on the endangered list under the Next to a Black Hole category - but that's the explanation in the movie for how Spock saw the destruction.

One of the biggest throw-me-out-of-my-induced-fiction-moments. Why did they have to call it Delta Vega? Pure nostalgia? Delta Vega in visual range of Vulcan is simply ridiculous being that the planet was near the outskirts of Federation space in TOS. It also appeared as if they arrived at Vulcan in mere minutes of leaving Earth. But that might have just been me missing something. Everything was so jumpy I could see that happening.

I get calling it Delta Vega for nostalgia purposes. That's fine by me, nobody outside of this forum cares.

But the fact that he could see Vulcan from there? I mean, how great a view do you get of Mars in the night sky? Even the moon looks smaller than Vulcan. They should have just had Spock watch Vulcan's destruction from the bridge of the Narada and had Spock dumped on Delta Vega after watching the destruction of Vulcan. And included a throwaway line about how Delta Vega was on route to Earth or something.

Also, do black holes destroy you or let you travel through time? Also, keep in mind that you would feel the gravitational effects of a black hole long before you crossed the event horizon. Kinda like how everyone can play basketball on the moon, but not on earth. Those folks on Vulcan and on the Narada would not be moving around if they were that close to a black hole. But then that wouldn't be any fun would it? You didn't need to drill to destroy a planet with a black hole, but where's the fun in that?

The beaming to the Enterprise from Delta Vega bugs me too. Why bother with a spaceship if you can just transport that far? They could have at least had the shuttle try to pursue the Enterprise. Or thrown in a line about how the E was damaged and limping a la Wrath of Khan.

I agree with others who have pointed out . . . why did Nero need the codes to the Federation defenses since he so clearly outmatched anything they were capable of?

Also, I didn't get why Spock didn't go with Kirk to the Enterprise. I didn't buy his explanation.

I agree that Kirk was promoted too fast. If you're making a movie, you don't need to have him start out as a cadet. He and Spock could easily have been rival Commanders or Lt. Cmdrs.

Scenes that served no purpose:

1. Delta Vega monster
2. Water Pipes

 

[pookha]

just because kirk was a cadet dosnt mean he wasnt already a lt just like saavik was a lt.

as for delta vega..
there could be two delta vega's , wouldnt be the first time for trek.
maybe one is delta vega summer and the other is delta vega winter.



as for spock seeing.. i almost wonder if nero did something to cause the destruction of vulcan to be projected into the sky.
because that is almost what it looked like.

 

[dudley]

Hey, just came back from the movie and thought I liked it -- until I saw the list of errors and inconsistencies. I withdraw my enjoyment.

 

[Brent]

Hey, just came back from the movie and thought I liked it -- until I saw the list of errors and inconsistencies. I withdraw my enjoyment.

seriously? you let a bunch of nitpicking deter your enjoyment of the movie?

every movie has errors and inconsistencies, you just have to roll with the punches and look past them

 

[Rii]

Pike apparently wrote a dissertation on the events surrounding the loss of the Kelvin, which is how he was able to recognise and subsequently lecture Kirk at the bar about his father, yet he needed Kirk to tell him that the "lightning storm" phenomena reported over Vulcan was the same as that the Kelvin had been investigating when it was attacked?