Equal Pay Debate

[WraithDukat]

Fifty, the man can't have the two week recovery period post birth. Hardly seems unfair.

Only 37 paid though, women get paid for the whole lot.

Why would they? Flexitime is non gender specific. Men pick up kids from school too.

Without meaning to be funny thinking an employer and other employees wouldn't be more forgiving of a woman disappearing to pickup the kids or because one is unwell seems a little naive. I've seen it a lot, once place I worked the women (only the women) were allowed to leave earlier in the winter so they could get the earlier bus and not have to stand around.

Because it was hard to know what else to say to the absurd heating comment, it was a blatant sexist stereotype elevated to the pretense of a real argument.

Again, just going off my own experience.

 

[MacLeod]

In the UK we don't. The woman can transfer only a few weeks (I can't remember the exact number) only if SHE wants too.

A man taking that much flexitime would be frowned up, granted this is because of social constructs that woman can hardly be blamed for.

Not sure what the 'Err' was about.

As for the final point it was a sweeping generalisation to be fair, but a generally true one in my experience.

The woman has to take so much paternity leave by law in the UK after childbirth 2 or 4 weeks I think depending on Job. The rest of the entilement of parental leave can be taken by either partner or split between partners.

https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay

 

[MacLeod]

Why would they? Flexitime is non gender specific. Men pick up kids from school too.
.

You don't have to be a parent or carer in the UK to request flexitime.

https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working

 

[WraithDukat]

Only 37 paid though, women get paid for the whole lot.



Without meaning to be funny thinking an employer and other employees wouldn't be more forgiving of a woman disappearing to pickup the kids or because one is unwell seems a little naive. I've seen it a lot, once place I worked the women (only the women) were allowed to leave earlier in the winter so they could get the earlier bus and not have to stand around.



Again, just going off my own experience.

You don't have to be a parent or carer in the UK to request flexitime.

https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working

No, but granting it is at the discretion of the employer.

 

[Spot261]

Only 37 paid though, women get paid for the whole lot.

No they don't. The pay structure works exactly the same regardless, read it again. We're really good at gender equality in this particular area in the UK, arguably the best in the world

Without meaning to be funny thinking an employer and other employees wouldn't be more forgiving of a woman disappearing to pickup the kids or because one is unwell seems a little naive.

What on earth gives you this idea? If that is happening somewhere and a systematic pattern can be identified any decent union rep would tear that employer to shreds (I've been one by the way)

Again, just going off my own experience.

Not a great basis for an argument about people's basic rights.

You don't have to be a parent or carer in the UK to request flexitime.

I know

 

[MacLeod]

But we are talking about perceived hindrances to equal pay to which flexitime (in the UK) isn't one as all employees have the right to request it.

 

[Spot261]

But we are talking about perceived hindrances to equal pay to which flexitime (in the UK) isn't one as all employees have the right to request it.

Which is the point I've made. @ArcherNX01 seems to believe there is a systematic pattern of showing preference to females with regard to actually granting that in practise resulting in women being inefficient employees compared to males.

Such a bias would be discrimination and illegal.

 

[WraithDukat]

Again, we all have the right to ask but it's at the discretion of the employer. In my experience they definitely favour women when it comes to this. As I said before I had one that would let the women leave early in the winter so they weren't waiting around for the bus. I probably should've kicked up a fuss but it was first job out of uni and I was desperate to keep it.

I am not saying they should and yes it's probably illegal, but it's there. It's illegal to go over 70mph on the motorway and download copyrighted material too lol.

 

[Spot261]

I probably should've kicked up a fuss but it was first job out of uni and I was desperate to keep it.

Probably, but this is the sort of thing small employers with non unionised workforces prey on, the fear of consequences and lack of support in place.

Ironically flexitime is really beneficial to employers, numerous studies have shown it actually increases productivity.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Women cost more to employ:

1) Maternity pay, if you want to remove this as a factor give men the exact same rights.

2) The expect all kinds of perks, like fexitime etc so they can pick up kids. When they do this others have to pick up their slack, costing you money and annoying other members of staff. Again, give the same rights to men if you want to get rid of this, the men would never get away with leaving as often as the women do.

3) They constantly want the heating on, even in summer.

4) Yak Yak Yak much more than their male counterparts, especially the younger ones.



Exactly, this is what it boils down to.

This is the most idiotic sexist response I've ever seen.

 

[MacLeod]

Again, we all have the right to ask but it's at the discretion of the employer. In my experience they definitely favour women when it comes to this. As I said before I had one that would let the women leave early in the winter so they weren't waiting around for the bus. I probably should've kicked up a fuss but it was first job out of uni and I was desperate to keep it.

I am not saying they should and yes it's probably illegal, but it's there. It's illegal to go over 70mph on the motorway and download copyrighted material too lol.

So long as they allow people of other gender to go early to catch a bus it isn't an issue. If they only allow women to go early and not say men, then it's sexual discrimination and against the law.

And if you are in the UK and you kicked up a fuss about it and they fired you because of it they would be breaking employment law. If they created a hostile working environment for you because of your complaint which forced you to leave that would also be against employment law.

Which is why it can pay to join a union if union exist and your place of work. And if you work for a major company in the UK chances are there is a union that represents the employees.

 

[UssGlenn]

How is playing hockey (or soccer, for that matter) different for men and women? It's not!

`Men's hockey and soccer pulls more viewers and therefor can charge more for admissions and commercil time.

This applies to many fields, that have any connection to entertainment. The size of the audience determines the pay, not the actual job. The NBA pays more than the WNBA, but note that Lebron James makes way more money than most of his male peers, shouldn't everybody in the NBA who have played the same number of years in the same position get paid the same? Of course not, in fact Lebron James is only indirectly getting paid more for being a better player, he's actually worth more because the team he plays on will attract more viewers.
Hollywood works the same way. Actresses get paid what the market will bear. For example Elizabeth Taylor was the first actor, male or female, to get 1 million dollars for a film. It's actually a true free market.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Actresses get paid what the market will bear.

Actresses get paid what sexist male producers tell them they'll get paid.

 

[UncleRogi]

I've seen it a lot, once place I worked the women (only the women) were allowed to leave earlier in the winter so they could get the earlier bus and not have to stand around.

Well, it gets dark early in the winter. And there are repressed, sad individuals who haunt bus stops
waiting for lone women ... a man would offer to escort women to the stop, or a ride - no strings
attached.

That's a poor excuse for resentment.

 

[WraithDukat]

Actresses get paid what sexist male producers tell them they'll get paid.

The new Doctor is getting paid the same as Capaldi despite been less than half his age and therefore less experience, a nice PR stunt by the BBC based purely on what's between her legs.

Well, it gets dark early in the winter. And there are repressed, sad individuals who haunt bus stops
waiting for lone women ... a man would offer to escort women to the stop, or a ride - no strings
attached.

That's a poor excuse for resentment.

Not really, especially since most of them just made it up anyway. If you want to let your female employees go early you should let the males go early too. To do otherwise is the definition of sexism.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

The new Doctor is getting paid the same as Capaldi despite been less than half his age and therefore less experience, a nice PR stunt by the BBC based purely on what's between her legs.



Not really, especially since most of them just made it up anyway. If you want to let your female employees go early you should let the males go early too. To do otherwise is the definition of sexism.

Goddamn I can't imagine someone I want to talk to less. Sorry about your deep resentment and hatred for women, bro. It's pretty pathetic. Later.

 

[John Clark]

Only 37 paid though, women get paid for the whole lot.
.

Actually, in the UK, 39 weeks for women - and it is not full pay. The company also gets to reclaim a good portion of it too.

We used to have flexitime at our office (Not quite as good as it was anymore) and it applied to everyone. Now, we have a set number of hours per week, but you can shift them around some as long as you are in between 10 and 3. It did apply to everyone.

With regards the heating, all but one of the people in our office who prefer the temperature at 25c or warmer happen to be all men.

 

[UssGlenn]

Actresses get paid what sexist male producers tell them they'll get paid.

We both know that the almighty dollar trumps all in Hollywood. If your name isn't going to put more people in the seats, then you are replaceable, and they will find an up and comer who will do the job for less. There are a lot of actors out there, and the ones with true leverage over their salaries are rare.

 

[cosmic mouse]

This applies to many fields, that have any connection to entertainment. The size of the audience determines the pay, not the actual job. The NBA pays more than the WNBA, but note that Lebron James makes way more money than most of his male peers, shouldn't everybody in the NBA who have played the same number of years in the same position get paid the same? Of course not, in fact Lebron James is only indirectly getting paid more for being a better player, he's actually worth more because the team he plays on will attract more viewers.
Hollywood works the same way. Actresses get paid what the market will bear. For example Elizabeth Taylor was the first actor, male or female, to get 1 million dollars for a film. It's actually a true free market.

The NFL or NBA for example, are far more concrete examples since, yes, there are obvious physical differences between men and women. There is a stark difference between sports and acting (or other forms of entertainment). At least in my brain the two are not wholly comparable in terms of this thread topic... and it is true that, generally speaking, male actors are paid more than their female counterparts. And this has not anything to do with "demand". (and it's also not anything new since I have a personal anecdote related to this from about 30 years ago and it was happening for ages prior to then).

 

[Balok's Decoy]

We both know that the almighty dollar trumps all in Hollywood. If your name isn't going to put more people in the seats, then you are replaceable, and they will find an up and comer who will do the job for less. There are a lot of actors out there, and the ones with true leverage over their salaries are rare.

This is demonstrably untrue.

Jennifer Lawrence, as one example, is wildly popular and has starred in incredibly successful movies. She's a widely known actress and has broad appeal (regardless of your or anyone here's personal opinion of her or her acting.) And while she is a highly compensated actress, she has gotten paid less than her male co-stars and had less of a share of profits than those male costars in the same film and with a roughly equitable share of screentime. If even the most highly compensated actresses are getting shortchanged compared to their male costars, infer the extent of the problem lower on the ladder with actresses who have even less bargaining power than Jennifer Lawrence. Come on.

EDIT: Also consider the systemic sexual harassment and assault that women experience in the entertainment industry and think about how that throws a fucking wrench into their financial bargaining strategy.