Episodes without fisticuffs.

[Commishsleer]

Oh, yeah, in WIF there's a great little fight scene, when Redjac realizes that Kirk and Spock have figured it out. It (occupying Hengist's body) jumps up, tosses everyone off, throws down some barriers, and then delivers a sweet kick to Kirk that sends him flying back against the bulkhead. It's one of the few times anyone gets the drop on Kirk in a fight - must be that advanced Jack the Ripper/dawn of time-spawned demon knowledge and experience. Kirk then smokes Hengist/it with a wicked cross.

In MOG Spock tosses one Gideon guard down the corridor after nerve-pinching the other one. I'm not sure if that's "fisticuffs" either. And in all of the others that you mentioned - TIS, EMP, DY, TWS, TI, and MET - I'm pretty sure you are right that they have no fight scenes.

I watched Wolf in the Fold a couple of weeks ago so don't know how I forgot that scene. It was great seeing the little possessed man send Kirk flying. Not because I hate Kirk but because it showed how obviously he was the killer. And it was fisticuffs because Kirk came back for more.

[

The one thing that none of the other series have been able to re-capture is the epic, unapologetic mano-y-mano combat of TOS. Even the films were generally devoid of it (although Kirk vs. Kruge was pretty awesome).

Kirkfu for the win.

As a rule I'm not really looking for fights but I agree Shatner has some magic about him. The passion, the bravery KIrk exudes when in command or in a fight just is an intrinsic part of the greatness of TOS.

Look you'd hope in the future there would be no need for fisticuffs but TOS was in the frontier times before they had tame Klingons and Romulans.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

That reminded me of this quote from Roddenberry after the original pilot was rejected.

"I sort of understood [NBC's verdict]," he said. "I wrote and produced what I thought was a highly imaginative idea, and I realized I had gone too far. I should actually have ended it with a fistfight between the hero and the villain if I wanted it on television […] because that's the way shows were being made at the time. The great mass audience would say, 'Well, if you don't have a fistfight when it's ended, how do we know that's the finish?,' and things like that."

Needless to say at this point, GR was an unreliable narrator and serial exaggerator. There were tons of "quality drama" series in those days that didn't rely on fist fights to hold our attention. What Gene was really doing in that quote was artfully shifting the blame for "The Cage" not getting the series sold. The uncultivated public and a brawl-loving, knucklehead network were the culprits. The pilot's only flaw was that it was too good.

 

[johnnybear]

That Which Survives has no fight scenes!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

My list of no fist fight episodes
Miri
The Corbomite Maneuver
The Conscience of The King
Balance of Terror
Galileo 7
Devil in The Dark
Who mourns For Adonais?
The Changeling
I,Mudd
Metamorphosis
The Immunity Syndrome
Return to Tomorrow
The Ultimate Computer
Elaan of Troyius
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
That Which Survives
The Lights of Zetar
The Way To Eden
This is a toughie as there is some sort of violence in all the episodes. Some seen and some unseen but it's there and one or two that I've quoted are borderline cases!
JB

 

[amp]

Needless to say at this point, GR was an unreliable narrator and serial exaggerator. There were tons of "quality drama" series in those days that didn't rely on fist fights to hold our attention. What Gene was really doing in that quote was artfully shifting the blame for "The Cage" not getting the series sold. The uncultivated public and a brawl-loving, knucklehead network were the culprits. The pilot's only flaw was that it was too good.

Well, I agree that Roddenberry could be self-serving, but I'm not sure he's just spinning tales here. Most people would consider "The Cage" to be a pretty good episode, so I don't think NBC rejected it because it of poor storytelling. Everything I've read is in agreement that NBC really did want a more action-oriented show than what they initially got. And it's noticeable that the second pilot does feature a bare-knuckled brawl between the captain and his antagonist.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Well, I agree that Roddenberry could be self-serving, but I'm not sure he's just spinning tales here. Most people would consider "The Cage" to be a pretty good episode, so I don't think NBC rejected it because it of poor storytelling. Everything I've read is in agreement that NBC really did want a more action-oriented show than what they initially got. And it's noticeable that the second pilot does feature a bare-knuckled brawl between the captain and his antagonist.

But here's the thing: "The Cage" did have plenty of action, with the Kalar battle and all that blasting away with lasers. The trouble with it, that Gene didn't acknowledge, was firstly that the lead characters were way off. Due to both the writing and casting, the Captain and Number One came across as wooden, charisma-challenged downers most viewers wouldn't want to spend time with. The second trouble was that it relied too much on Gene's background obsession of sex, to the point of getting pretty lurid by family-viewing standards.

WNMHGB fixed those mistakes, not the lack of a fistfight. And that's what GR didn't care to say.

 

[Ssosmcin]

And Roddenberry loved to paint himself as the lone progressive genius in Hollywood by depicting every Network exec as a narrow minded racist, misogynistic moron who considered the audience a collection of dullards. "How will the audience know the episode ended without a fistfight?" Come on.... I find his lectures and commentary painful to read sometimes and always a chore to listen to.

 

[plynch]

Arrogant, considering he made his writing reputation in tv.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

My list of no fist fight episodes
Miri
The Corbomite Maneuver
The Conscience of The King
Balance of Terror
Galileo 7
Devil in The Dark
Who mourns For Adonais?
The Changeling
I,Mudd
Metamorphosis
The Immunity Syndrome
Return to Tomorrow
The Ultimate Computer
Elaan of Troyius
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
That Which Survives
The Lights of Zetar
The Way To Eden
This is a toughie as there is some sort of violence in all the episodes. Some seen and some unseen but it's there and one or two that I've quoted are borderline cases!
JB

I wonder if the BBC cut some violent scenes for you. "Miri" has the tricycle scene, with Kirk giving McCoy's assailant three massive punches. Getting into semantics, "The Devil in the Dark" has a moment of mob violence with billy clubs, and "Elaan of Troyius" has the guy getting killed in Engineering, and Kirk in some light hand-to-hand combat against Elaan's guards, and the Dolman herself.

 

[johnnybear]

True, like I said borderline cases and Miri was only shown the once back in 1970 before being shown in the early 90s on satellite TV and eventually repeated by the BBC in 94 but by then I'd given up watching normal TV for my DVDs!
JB

 

[Push The Button]

Interesting thread, if you were making this same list for TNG I think it would be inverted (more episodes without fistfights than ones with.)

 

[plynch]

I don't like fisticuffs.
It took me many eps into my dvds of the animated series to realize there were none. Or nearly none?

 

[BillJ]

Interesting thread, if you were making this same list for TNG I think it would be inverted (more episodes without fistfights than ones with.)

Were there any fist fights in TNG? I'm sure there were, but I'm drawing a complete blank.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yar had the "Amok Time" fight in "Code of Honor." Picard threw a punch in "The High Ground." "Sarek" had a Ten-Forward bawl. Worf and Lore in "Datalore." Worf fought Duras in "Reunion." Worf and Riker fought Admiral whoever in "Conspiracy." There were others. None of them were particularly exciting.

Once we got to DS9, the fights were so obviously choreographed, they lost all their verve. The Madalone style of "punch, pause, double fist to the gut, pause, chop to the arm, pause, palm to the face" while the other guy stands there and takes this low energy beating. "The Way of the Warrior" has a lot of these in Ops.

 

[dupersuper]

Were there any fist fights in TNG? I'm sure there were, but I'm drawing a complete blank.

Well, open palm fights...

 

[PCz911]

Yar had the "Amok Time" fight in "Code of Honor." Picard threw a punch in "The High Ground." "Sarek" had a Ten-Forward bawl. Worf and Lore in "Datalore." Worf fought Duras in "Reunion." Worf and Riker fought Admiral whoever in "Conspiracy." There were others. None of them were particularly exciting.

Once we got to DS9, the fights were so obviously choreographed, they lost all their verve. The Madalone style of "punch, pause, double fist to the gut, pause, chop to the arm, pause, palm to the face" while the other guy stands there and takes this low energy beating. "The Way of the Warrior" has a lot of these in Ops.

I’m not familiar with the phrase madalone style... can someone please explain it?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Dennis Madalone was the stunt coordinator for TNG, DS9 and Voyager. It’s my own term because the fights started to look the same.

 

[johnnybear]

Interesting thread, if you were making this same list for TNG I think it would be inverted (more episodes without fistfights than ones with.)

Or as TNG writers quoted as cowboy diplomacy!
JB

 

[Xhiandra]

Thanks everyone for the contributions. Less thanks for the couple of hostile reactions.
(I did forget about the ending of Court Martial, that was quite a blunder)

My list of no fist fight episodes
Miri
The Corbomite Maneuver
The Conscience of The King
Balance of Terror
Galileo 7
Devil in The Dark
Who mourns For Adonais?
The Changeling
I,Mudd
Metamorphosis
The Immunity Syndrome
Return to Tomorrow
The Ultimate Computer
Elaan of Troyius
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
That Which Survives
The Lights of Zetar
The Way To Eden
This is a toughie as there is some sort of violence in all the episodes. Some seen and some unseen but it's there and one or two that I've quoted are borderline cases!
JB

It's obviously quite subjective, though I didn't expect it to be this subjective. Just happens that almost all of the ~40 episodes I watched last in my rewatch seemed to have some sort of fist fight.
As for the term "fisticuffs" itself, I only used it to reference the Q vs Sisko fight.


Not sure why people are so hung up on the terms "hilariously bad": many of those fights were choreographed by people who know nothing of fighting.
In fact, I remember a Shatner interview where he admits he had misconceptions about martial arts and recognises that much of Kirkfu would not be very effective at all.

And I meant the hilarious part. I loved many of those fights, they work brilliantly as a piece of comedy.
This one needs a "weeeee" dubbed in, but is pretty hilarious on its own.

 

[M'Sharak]

Not sure why people are so hung up on the terms "hilariously bad": many of those fights were choreographed by people who know nothing of fighting.
In fact, I remember a Shatner interview where he admits he had misconceptions about martial arts and recognises that much of Kirkfu would not be very effective at all.

Real-life fights are frequently messy--accidental injury can be at least as likely as injury intentionally inflicted--and often not that much fun to watch. TV-show fights are staged for entertainment purposes and necessarily involve choreography. Even the fight sequences put together by someone who knows a thing or two about fighting are clearly staged, as very few weekly television shows could (then or now) afford to budget the rehearsal time, the number of expert-fighter extras, and the editing required to make such a scene appear fully spontaneous.

And I meant the hilarious part. I loved many of those fights, they work brilliantly as a piece of comedy.
This one needs a "weeeee" dubbed in, but is pretty hilarious on its own.

Some of them are indeed great fun. If schedule and budget constraints mean that you necessarily must rely on stock moves and tropes for your near-weekly fight scenes, why not play a few of them for laughs now and then, just to change things up?