Episodes that got better or worse after repeated viewings

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Pikirk_Janesisko, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like most of Part II up to the resolution itself...but I'm not sure what other options were really available at that point. That's the problem with an antagonist that's essentially a force of nature.

    There was a bit of karmic justice in the Borg's collectivism ultimately being turned against them, though. It just doesn't make for exciting viewing.
     
  2. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    I tend to see BoBW as two halves of a truly brilliant whole. It's only downside is that its underlying character arc for Riker is his emergence from Picard's shadow as a decisive, heroic captain in his own right, and then... nothing.

    Like another episode I was recently discussing, it's necessary for the show to keep both its leads, but it's still kind of unsatisfying.
     
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  3. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That...is a memorable scene...
     
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  4. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sirtis in the sky-y with diamonds (in her pretty hairband)
     
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    It's a bird!
    It's a plane!
    It's a... ship's counselor?
     
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  6. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's cleavage. I suppose the fact that even her own nightmares show her from the most, erm, 'advantageous' angle should tell us something about the inner psychology of the Troi character.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
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  7. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    I'm about to rewatch "I, Borg". In 1992, I was expecting a big big scary battle but it ended up being "let's make friends" instead and opting to eschew and Escher* in favor of teaching Hugh how to fetch, ask how it feels, then return him to the kennel where he'll teach the other poodles... that didn't work out very well and be glad Lore was floating around nearby, but in retrospect they did the right thing to not do another "wham bam epic slam". One Borg alone instilled plenty of claustrophobia and most of the character interactions were cool to see... the other contrived bits I might change my mind on, but am speaking what I definitively remember liking and not at the time of my last rewatch (when the blu-ray came out, and I hadn't seen the episode since the original airdate.)

    * that wouldn't have made them go nuts
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I rather liked seeing Picard and Guinan play against type.
     
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  9. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oi, that's SSD! :guffaw: There are some terrific and insanely fast m.2 form factor models out on the market nowadays...

    As for the intended reference of LSD, I cannot help. Now if I had a time machine and knew personally any of the of hippies at Haight Ashbury (the LSD capitol of the world?) who offered a joint to George (who turned them down)... https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/08/07/george-harrison-visits-haight-ashbury-san-francisco/ ( ...wow... ) :devil:
     
  10. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm gonna go after Unification. I think we were all too excited to get this crossover episode with Star Trek's crown Jewel character, & maybe it was never going to measure up to that.

    I did like it back in its day. You had Mark Lenard's final moments of mastery as Sarek. A wonderful exchange with Spock & Data, a few gems like Spock melding with Picard to know his own father better etc... I'm even fond of the premise of Spock championing the cause of reunification, which seems a fitting direction to take his arc.

    But sadly, as the years go on, it's more evident that the episode falls short in many ways, not the least of which is that once again Denise Crosby really runs that show aground with her acting. Many fans revile the Sela character, & this turn is one of the main reasons I suspect.

    But even beyond that, there's a lot of padding in this 2-partner that weighs it down for no good reason. The end result is that it's a pretty dull episode, once you get past the novelty of Nimoy being in it
     
  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm completely against drugs and the strongest substance I put into my body is black tea (and even then its diluted with a lot of milk)
    I just made the reference because her flying around like that made me think of the lyrics ;)
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I feel Part 1 is pretty good but Part 2 suffers from a Romulan plot that doesn't really hold up under scrutiny and a far too easy prisoner escape. I don't think I have a problem with Crosby's acting, and I enjoy the exchange between Sela and Data when she facetiously complains about not getting to write as often as she'd like. The conversation between Spock and Data is also a high point for me.
     
  13. dregj

    dregj Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    As a kid it used to drive me crazy they'd mostly chicken out of a fight,I wonder how much was rodenberry's vision of finding a better ,peaceful way and how much was budget
     
  14. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Probably pretty much any resolution would seem at little underwhelming if not a little cheating to such bleak cliffhanger, high stakes and overwhelming odds.

    It might have been good if "Family" had included a subplot of seeing him directly go from not just My career plans are my own business to my place is on the Enterprise though there was some subtext of that in TBoBW including that he decided to yes throw away the book and/but not let Picard go, that he had to save him.
     
  15. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've always felt Family had the perfect opportunity to touch on this, when in the very 1st scene, Riker & Worf are conversing about Worf being bothered that his parents are coming aboard unannounced, & Riker sort of takes their perspective on it.

    There was a good opportunity, even if just for one scene, to have Riker talk about how he might even be jealous about not having any family at Earth to come pay him a similar visit, his mother being long dead, & his father, while being somewhat less estranged, is still distant, and that some crew, like himself, come all the way back to their homeworld, & never reunite or see anyone, because the ship & crew ARE their only real family.

    Something even as simple as that one exchange might've given some tangible context to how Riker feels about the people there, & why he's still surprisingly there, after being offered another option. Having an episode called Family, about some of the crew's relatives, without at least bringing up Riker's deal, seems a loss, & it could've been a much more potent thorn in Worf's side to hear himself whining about family wanting to see him, to someone who might actually want that but doesn't have it, & is choosing to make it for himself right where he is, at the possible cost of his future ambitions.
     
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  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think "Family" could easily have been a mini-arc of its own (with the E-D needing repairs as an appropriate rationale) to give us a lot more insight into the crew's families and perhaps even a bit of what impact the events of BoBW might have on Earth/Starfleet/the Federation.

    Needless to say, TV at that time didn't really tend to do such things. :|
     
  17. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, it took them years to give us anything on Geordi's family, who as Starfleet officers could've been impacted by Wolf 359 too, & it might've been nice to have some hint at how all this Borg stuff affected Deanna's homeworld & her mother. It even might have been a good move to have something creep in, that hints at the next episode, which is all about Data's family.... ooo like if when Data was hacking into the collective, they were trying to invade his systems too, & unlocked something that links him to Lore, who at that time was having his homing protocol activated by Soong. A big 3 episode family arc after BoBW could've worked wonderfully

    Then right after it, while everybody's got all the feels over family, you bump up Legacy in the production line, to be next, & really get the best kind of lead in, to have some feels over Tasha's sister
     
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I could have easily seen Lwaxana showing up to Earth or the E-D tremendously worried about what her daughter's been through, and it might have foreshadowed "Dark Page".

    But there just seems to be a lot of unfinished business. After such a catastrophic event (even if Earth was spared, Starfleet lost 40 starships), I would think there would be crewmembers who wanted to transfer off the ship, or at least considered transferring off the ship, for various reasons. Instead, while "Family" was laudable and I greatly appreciated seeing even that level of resolution, it's still Business as Usual very quickly afterward.
     
  19. simbit

    simbit Ensign Newbie

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    "We'll Always Have Paris" gets better for me every time I watch it.
     
  20. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Totally agree. In fact, there are several S1 episodes I considered pretty lukewarm back when they premiered that I really appreciate now.
     
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