Episode of the Week : Requiem for Methuselah
- Thread starter Botany Bay
- Start date
A favourite of my wife's best friend, who named her daughter after Rayna. I consider it among the best of the third season, though it shares a flaw with STiD--too little time elapsed for a central plot element. If, in each case, a week, rather than a day, had elapsed, the love story (and the trip back and forth to the Klingon homeworld) would have been more persuasive (before anyone gets into a wrinkle, this is the only point of comparison I'm making between the two--I'm not interested in a debate about "Real Trek" or anything like that).
Sorry if this was covered long before I got here as I'm sure it was, but before I forget, where are these amazing art pieces for these threads coming from? I love them.
10
Nothing beats Requiem for Methuselah for sheer spectacle! The only thing that comes even close to it, maybe, is the show with the Gorn in it. Seeing Kirk beat the living shit out of the aging Master, Leonard da Vinci over a "woman," is a thing not to be missed. The Master knew just how to get the most value out of Kirk's visit, until then ... and the stakes are higher than you can know, if you haven't seen this episode. The conclusion of which is surprisingly moving. This may not be great science-fiction, but it is, after all, Great Entertainment.
Nothing beats Requiem for Methuselah for sheer spectacle! The only thing that comes even close to it, maybe, is the show with the Gorn in it. Seeing Kirk beat the living shit out of the aging Master, Leonard da Vinci over a "woman," is a thing not to be missed. The Master knew just how to get the most value out of Kirk's visit, until then ... and the stakes are higher than you can know, if you haven't seen this episode. The conclusion of which is surprisingly moving. This may not be great science-fiction, but it is, after all, Great Entertainment.
I agree on the artwork for these threads, whoever worked on it did a good job.
Overall I thought this episode was a bit lackluster with Shatner really chewing the scenery to pieces this time. I mean, it's just an android after all and not a very good one at that.
This show had a bit in common with the Twilight Zone episode Long Live Walter Jameson which was done 9 years prior. Also similar to Twilight Zone's Queen of the Nile from 1964. The miniature "voodoo Enterprise" gimmick was also already done two years prior in Catspaw.
I agree with 2takesfrakes on the fist fight.
Instead of gunning down M4 with his phaser, I would have liked to have seen Spock bash it with a baseball bat so it could bob around on it's obvious wire as it was beaten. It's also sad for the poor NOMAD probe, after seeing him serve as the Romulan cloaking device, to find out his head has been recycled to be M4's behind. A bat would've also come in handy later on for McCoy; he could've announced "He's dyin', Jim!" and then cracked Flint on the head with it, proving his point.
I also think it would have added an element of "horror" to the plot if Rayna's head had been accidentally knocked off during the fight so both men could be reminded just what they were really fighting over, sort of a Westworld moment. Her noggin could've rolled to a stop at Shatner's feet so he'd have an excuse to burst into hysterical tears.
On a more serious note, I thought Spock kind of crossed the line with what was technically an unauthorized mind meld. Seemed a little out of character in my opinion.
Overall I thought this episode was a bit lackluster with Shatner really chewing the scenery to pieces this time. I mean, it's just an android after all and not a very good one at that.
This show had a bit in common with the Twilight Zone episode Long Live Walter Jameson which was done 9 years prior. Also similar to Twilight Zone's Queen of the Nile from 1964. The miniature "voodoo Enterprise" gimmick was also already done two years prior in Catspaw.
I agree with 2takesfrakes on the fist fight.
Instead of gunning down M4 with his phaser, I would have liked to have seen Spock bash it with a baseball bat so it could bob around on it's obvious wire as it was beaten. It's also sad for the poor NOMAD probe, after seeing him serve as the Romulan cloaking device, to find out his head has been recycled to be M4's behind. A bat would've also come in handy later on for McCoy; he could've announced "He's dyin', Jim!" and then cracked Flint on the head with it, proving his point.
I also think it would have added an element of "horror" to the plot if Rayna's head had been accidentally knocked off during the fight so both men could be reminded just what they were really fighting over, sort of a Westworld moment. Her noggin could've rolled to a stop at Shatner's feet so he'd have an excuse to burst into hysterical tears.
On a more serious note, I thought Spock kind of crossed the line with what was technically an unauthorized mind meld. Seemed a little out of character in my opinion.
I enjoy the hell out of this one, despite its flaws.
Kirk seems more interested in the mystery of Flint and getting laid than in getting his crew cured in a timely manner. He's playing pool while everyone upstairs is sweating and vomiting all over the place (or whatever the symptoms of said made-up disease may be). And his meteoric plunge into full-out sacrifice-my-career-and-crew love was hard to believe.
Flint was TOO many famous people. I could buy him being one famous person, but they overdid it.
But Louise Sorrel was lovely and engaging, and James Daley is always a pleasure. The basic story was sound, and the reveal a proper sci fi surprise (well I was surprised when I was 12, anyway).
I'll give it a 7.
Kirk seems more interested in the mystery of Flint and getting laid than in getting his crew cured in a timely manner. He's playing pool while everyone upstairs is sweating and vomiting all over the place (or whatever the symptoms of said made-up disease may be). And his meteoric plunge into full-out sacrifice-my-career-and-crew love was hard to believe.
Flint was TOO many famous people. I could buy him being one famous person, but they overdid it.
But Louise Sorrel was lovely and engaging, and James Daley is always a pleasure. The basic story was sound, and the reveal a proper sci fi surprise (well I was surprised when I was 12, anyway).
I'll give it a 7.
They are from Juan Ortiz's series of retro-style TOS posters. You can buy prints on startrek.com, though it looks like not all of them are currently available:
http://shop.startrek.com/juan-ortiz-art-prints/index.php?v=startrek_home-office_posters_juan-ortiz
As for the episode, I find it to be an interesting concept hampered in execution by the turd season's general mediocrity. I would give it perhaps a 6.
Kor
"Forget."
Rayna is smarter and less sappy than many of the other female guest stars but then what - intelligence and emotions can never go hand in hand so her head explodes. Conceptually interesting but some repetitive elements alongside quite a few other robot stories (enough to make Kirk a bi-curious robosexual). The speed with which Kirk falls madly for Rayna was just bonkers and Flint's back story was equally silly.
As I've no doubt written before: The speed with which Kirk falls for Rayna has everything to do with what an incredible genius Flint is, and how well he did his work (including learning from the defunct earlier versions - still, they must have been pretty special nonetheless, considering he KEPT them all!).
My favorite moment is probably "I... am Brahms." I also think the Ditmars composition (the "Brahms" waltz) was first-rate, although for years I only ever saw the syndication cut, which loses the whole middle section. What a wonderful idea: an original piece of music commissioned as a story element in a particular episode. And it was the impoverished third season that managed to find the means to get this done and done well.
First seen on NBC in 1969.
My favorite moment is probably "I... am Brahms." I also think the Ditmars composition (the "Brahms" waltz) was first-rate, although for years I only ever saw the syndication cut, which loses the whole middle section. What a wonderful idea: an original piece of music commissioned as a story element in a particular episode. And it was the impoverished third season that managed to find the means to get this done and done well.
First seen on NBC in 1969.
Or a "The Lonely" moment, as long as we're doing Twilight Zone references.
That's the problem with this episode's premise in a nutshell. Not only is there no attempt to explain Flint's immortality, but how could he have assumed so many identities throughout history? The lives of most famous and influential people are well-documented from the time and place of their births to the time and place of their deaths. Did Flint somehow manage to fake entire biographies? And just how do you fake your own birth, anyway?
Flint could have been the last of the immortals from the Highlander franchise if you think about it! His super strength coming from his many quickenings that he had taken during his long life and his need for a love not to wither and die by creating an android is very understandable! With no other immortals present or the fact that he defeated them all lead to his long awaited death! Seems ironic that he would have lived all those years and lives on earth, loved so many women and then moved to another planet and created a woman that would never die only for him to expire instead!
JB
JB
I gave it a nine. The whole may not be a brilliant work, but the parts offer so much to like that the episode is a treat:
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/requiem-for-methuselah-spoilers.203749/
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/requiem-for-methuselah-spoilers.203749/
I voted 7. There are some problems, of course, but overall a good one.
A common complaint about it being rushed is not a bad complaint, but really no Star Trek episode is continued after the credits so they had to do it all in 50 minutes. They could have made some passage of time but they didn't go that route because then they wouldn't have been desperate to get the rytalin so fast. It's strange how Bones can basically whip out some kironide out of his kit but doesn't have any rytalin for this disease that must have been a known thing, unless Bones developed a cure! That would have been an interesting episode, but we didn't get that one.
Rayna and Flint are interesting characters and really well portrayed, but there's stuff that doesn't carry through, like how Flint was so many different of these famous people. And on top of everything he said he was Lazarus and he didn't yell "KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL" what a rip off.
Seriously, though, I could see how a person that is that advanced above the human norm could basically look down on an average person's plight as beneath their concern. And I think that's what Flint is saying until his own memories of suffering come back and he does still feel empathy towards the crew. It's a really good scene. I also like Mr. Spock drinking brandy and playing waltzes, and shooting pool.
I'm going to just throw this out here, I'm just assuming that Jim is sick but his strong will and constitution have him not really exhibiting symptoms so he's not in a bed. Besides, they are all going to get it, but maybe not Spock, aren't they? It seems like one of those 100% transmissible diseases. So, weakened by the illness, he is not quite himself. And Rayna is just that charming, too. I could really buy that, as well.
Last thing, this episode seems to be a really good one for discussion purposes, can Federation officers trespass on private property just because of a medical emergency, can a person legally buy and own a planet, what makes a person a person especially regarding advanced androids, should Spock go messing about with Jim's memories no matter how well intentioned. Good discussion thread stuff.
A common complaint about it being rushed is not a bad complaint, but really no Star Trek episode is continued after the credits so they had to do it all in 50 minutes. They could have made some passage of time but they didn't go that route because then they wouldn't have been desperate to get the rytalin so fast. It's strange how Bones can basically whip out some kironide out of his kit but doesn't have any rytalin for this disease that must have been a known thing, unless Bones developed a cure! That would have been an interesting episode, but we didn't get that one.
Rayna and Flint are interesting characters and really well portrayed, but there's stuff that doesn't carry through, like how Flint was so many different of these famous people. And on top of everything he said he was Lazarus and he didn't yell "KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL" what a rip off.
Seriously, though, I could see how a person that is that advanced above the human norm could basically look down on an average person's plight as beneath their concern. And I think that's what Flint is saying until his own memories of suffering come back and he does still feel empathy towards the crew. It's a really good scene. I also like Mr. Spock drinking brandy and playing waltzes, and shooting pool.
I'm going to just throw this out here, I'm just assuming that Jim is sick but his strong will and constitution have him not really exhibiting symptoms so he's not in a bed. Besides, they are all going to get it, but maybe not Spock, aren't they? It seems like one of those 100% transmissible diseases. So, weakened by the illness, he is not quite himself. And Rayna is just that charming, too. I could really buy that, as well.
Last thing, this episode seems to be a really good one for discussion purposes, can Federation officers trespass on private property just because of a medical emergency, can a person legally buy and own a planet, what makes a person a person especially regarding advanced androids, should Spock go messing about with Jim's memories no matter how well intentioned. Good discussion thread stuff.
Or then it's another case of sheer Kirk genius. While his colleagues mill about on insignificant errands that do nothing to help the crew, Kirk intuitively homes in on the one and only thing that really matters: Rayna. That's how he beats Spock in chess, too.
Flint would have had thousands of years of experience on that very stuff before historical records of that sort were invented. Faking the birth of a great man is simple, because there was nobody of significance around to witness the supposed event anyway. Indeed, the birthdates and even parentage of great men ITRW tend to be mere guesswork. For all we know, half of them never even existed, except in saga and legend!
Even later on, things would be fairly simple. By the time Johannes Brahms was recognized as a somebody, Flint could have hired half a village to pretend that he had had a childhood; he could have begun that very process decades before his supposed birth, having planned ever since 1798 on becoming a famous composer in 1868.
Faking a death would be a breeze until medicine was invented, around 1900 or so. Beyond that, Flint would have to buy a doctor for each death. What futuristic complications would arise for his 2000s-and-beyond personae, we can only guess - but by that time, he'd no doubt be a competent cybermage, capable of perverting any and all records on par with Ben Finney.
Might be that ryetalyn just doesn't keep. But whether McCoy had kironide in his bag in "Stepkids" or not, we can't readily tell. Perhaps he only had medicine that made Kirk accumulate Platonian kironide from the environment at a high rate?
Indeed!
Timo Saloniemi
I gave it an eight as I like Jerome Bixby Star Trek stories!
JB
JB
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