^ You continue to overexaggerate the extent to which The Last Jedi divided the SW fandom and audiences in general, and doing so significantly weakens your argument.
Episode IX Speculation and Discussion
- Thread starter INACTIVESamusAranX
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It turned off most of the Star Wars fans I know, and there's more videos on YouTube every week about how it destroyed Star Wars or did this or that wrong. Just look at the comments on practically any video featuring Luke in the original trilogy and you'll find people talking about how Disney ruined him.
I thought it was okay, but audiences were clearly divided. Just check out Rotten Tomatoes. Critics loved it, but it only has a 45% audience score.
^ Just stop; you're embarrassing yourself.
First of all, you keep trotting out these infinitely small sample size examples as if they mean something and are indicative of a widespread opinion, which they are not.
Second, it has been factually proven, despite the company's denials, that Rotten Tomatoes' user scores for The Last Jedi were deliberately sabotaged by hackers, bots, and online Trolls.
First of all, you keep trotting out these infinitely small sample size examples as if they mean something and are indicative of a widespread opinion, which they are not.
Second, it has been factually proven, despite the company's denials, that Rotten Tomatoes' user scores for The Last Jedi were deliberately sabotaged by hackers, bots, and online Trolls.
Sigh. I'm mentioning small sample sizes alongside these larger stats. If you've not convinced by RT, just look at the box office - there was a huge drop from TFA to TLJ. If you don't think TLJ was divisive, you are burying your head in the sand.
^ The "huge drop in earnings" you're citing wasn't actually that significant, and does not actually mean anything in terms of how divisive TLJ actually was, as has been pointed out to you numerous times.
You also conveniently ignored my statement about TLJ's user score on Rotten Tomatoes having been deliberately sabotaged.
Also: I'm not denying that TLJ was divisive; I'm denying - based on the facts - that it was as divisive as you think it was.
It is a provable fact that the people who didn't like TLJ do not represent a significant opinion block in the overall scheme of how the film was received despite your continued statements to the contrary, and all you are doing by continuing to insist otherwise is convincing people not to take you seriously.
You also conveniently ignored my statement about TLJ's user score on Rotten Tomatoes having been deliberately sabotaged.
Also: I'm not denying that TLJ was divisive; I'm denying - based on the facts - that it was as divisive as you think it was.
It is a provable fact that the people who didn't like TLJ do not represent a significant opinion block in the overall scheme of how the film was received despite your continued statements to the contrary, and all you are doing by continuing to insist otherwise is convincing people not to take you seriously.
What facts? Where is this bar you're setting for divisiveness?
TFA was a once in a decade event, there was no way TLJ was ever going to match it's numbers, regardless of its quality. In fact, traditionally, if you look back at the box office history of the franchise, the first has always been the highest grossing, with the second instalment of the trilogy always being the lowest grossing, and the third pulling things back somewhat, but not to the level of the first.
Even if you discount this argument, TLJ still holds the third highest domestic opening weekend of all time, the 8th largest domestic take of all time, and the 11th highest worldwide. Adjusted for inflation it's domestic take drops to 43rd of all time, but it's still a hefty total at 620m - the kind of domestic numbers that a trek film can only dream of worldwide. It's 1.3b worldwide take far outstrips the prequels, even adjusted for inflation. It is a hugely successful movie.
For the record I also thought it was crap.
I disagree on this assertion. I think TLJ was not as large as TFA largely because sequels do not always do as well and that TFA was a large event, as @Smellmet stated. TLJ still brought in sufficient numbers and for every person who says they didn't like it I can find those who did and just moved on. Often times, those people are satisfied with an experienced are not going to go out and brag about it online. I certainly did not even though I thought about it. I just had a good time with a Star Wars movie.
In Star Wars now nearly everything is canon.
I agree. That was my thinking when I saw Han die. It was a sad, powerful moment, but knowing that Harrison Ford was ready to be killed off back during the OT, I was totally fine with it.
I thought Luke dying in TLJ was a bit more surprising and unsettling - I thought he would make it to the last film at least, and then die there if he was going to. It was very poignant, and I thought it was a very heroic way to go out. He was holding up Kylo Ren's forces whilst the last few straggling survivors of the resistance escaped.
^^Exactly, Seven of Five. It was a heroic end and they are keeping some of the ideas in the comics and EU canon since it had to be pointed out Luke was using a Force ability. And, to be fair, how to introduce that into the movie with subtlety as otherwise people would be set up for it down the road. Rian Johnson would be damned either way and to be honest, there are a number of scenes that can easily be followed up on and explained as "fake outs". Depends on how they write IX. TLJ is not that bad or anything approaching a travesty IMHO. If nothing else, it tried telling a bigger story and didn't bomb the way TFA took all the lazy shortcuts. It wasn't perfect but it was aces better than its predecessor. And they got Benecio Del Toro. If the makers have any brain cells, they'd keep DJ, do something with him, and get Benicio back. Then again, Benicio is such a natural all they need do is scribble in crayon "ha ha resistance scum" and he'd take it to great heights. Very much an understated actor but I'm done gushing now.
A side note: I love how critics go on and on about the new movies pissing on the old ones, forgetting that Trek did the same thing with half its TOS characters by the time 1994 arrived and as much as I like Doomcock's videos at times, he's wrong on his favorite topic of "they're killing all the franchises, moohahaha." as if it's a new thing, much less A thing to begin with. Let's recap the fate of the TOS characters: Scotty = ageism played up instead of fought against and then left to go rot on some desert planet, maybe Gilligan and the Skipper are there too. Kirk = dies, twice, and where the unused death sequence had the most amount of weight to it. McCoy = forgotten old guy. Spock = takes an illogical chance but "Unification" was, as they say, "an epic fail" for all the characters involved. Uhura = Space DJ but got to lock up sexy 1984 hair guy at one moment, and sniffing the hairspray is why her linguistic abilities were turned into a joke in TUC. Rand vanishes, again. Chekov was always the butt of jokes but the movies could have done more. I'd be here for hours... The point is, nobody's destroying the franchise - now or back then. They're making changes in what they believe adds to something while believing they're not alienating fans (which is the opposite of the intent of fanservice to begin with) and since when is a plot bulletproof? Never mind the TNG characters. Picard - well, we don't know but Stewart saw something good enough to make a return. Data is killed off lamely. The rest sounds like a pet shop at midnight full of crickets.
If nothing else, let's be consoled by the fact that Episode IX will be called "Recycled Are The Jedi" and pretend Yoda speaks it as a voiceover. The naysayers have a point that Disney's Star Wars VII-IX so far have been more or less template-driven, no matter what worked well from them. Then again, so was the 1977 original, only that was from another genre and an obscure one by American cultural zeitgeist circa 1977.
A side note: I love how critics go on and on about the new movies pissing on the old ones, forgetting that Trek did the same thing with half its TOS characters by the time 1994 arrived and as much as I like Doomcock's videos at times, he's wrong on his favorite topic of "they're killing all the franchises, moohahaha." as if it's a new thing, much less A thing to begin with. Let's recap the fate of the TOS characters: Scotty = ageism played up instead of fought against and then left to go rot on some desert planet, maybe Gilligan and the Skipper are there too. Kirk = dies, twice, and where the unused death sequence had the most amount of weight to it. McCoy = forgotten old guy. Spock = takes an illogical chance but "Unification" was, as they say, "an epic fail" for all the characters involved. Uhura = Space DJ but got to lock up sexy 1984 hair guy at one moment, and sniffing the hairspray is why her linguistic abilities were turned into a joke in TUC. Rand vanishes, again. Chekov was always the butt of jokes but the movies could have done more. I'd be here for hours... The point is, nobody's destroying the franchise - now or back then. They're making changes in what they believe adds to something while believing they're not alienating fans (which is the opposite of the intent of fanservice to begin with) and since when is a plot bulletproof? Never mind the TNG characters. Picard - well, we don't know but Stewart saw something good enough to make a return. Data is killed off lamely. The rest sounds like a pet shop at midnight full of crickets.
If nothing else, let's be consoled by the fact that Episode IX will be called "Recycled Are The Jedi" and pretend Yoda speaks it as a voiceover. The naysayers have a point that Disney's Star Wars VII-IX so far have been more or less template-driven, no matter what worked well from them. Then again, so was the 1977 original, only that was from another genre and an obscure one by American cultural zeitgeist circa 1977.
When I first saw TFA, I was left with the impression that I'd seen a bare-bones remake of ANH, although I still loved it. I still do - it was a thumping reintroduction to the universe that had left a lukewarm impression after the PT.
TLJ was better still, breaking away from any preconceived notions I have, and with a very bittersweet ending. Luke vs. Kylo Ren is such a wonderful scene.
TLJ was better still, breaking away from any preconceived notions I have, and with a very bittersweet ending. Luke vs. Kylo Ren is such a wonderful scene.
TFA is still one of my favorite films and TLJ is an incredibly dynamic film. I love the characters and how they are explored in each film. I have high hopes for Episode IX and confidence in Abrams.
That's not how canon works, the people who are making it determine what is canon, it has nothing to do with what you like or don't like. You can choose to ignore something, but it's still canon.
Possible part of the resistance fleet for Ep9
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLe...s_fleet_after_tlj_we/?st=JOMDGF2Q&sh=064a8b8a
The image is from a ride at Galaxy’s Edge which the story group has confirmed is both canon and set post-TLJ
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLe...s_fleet_after_tlj_we/?st=JOMDGF2Q&sh=064a8b8a
The image is from a ride at Galaxy’s Edge which the story group has confirmed is both canon and set post-TLJ
Must have found some remaining older New Republic ships, or some allied planetary defense force ships to group up against the First Order (who themselves shouldn't be all that numerous their since they had to build their fleet in secret). Or these were parts of the New Republic Fleet that were on patrol during the events of the first two films (which events take place over the course of maybe weeks, so work getting around that the government went pear shaped and the main fleet's gone would take a bit to recover from regardless. Add to this the Resistance being the outsider force, and not actually part of the New Republic (officially) means that their command chain is all sorts of messed up. Leia could probably get some of them around (and with the Legendary Last Stand of Luke Skywalker making the rounds, the remains of the New Republic would rally, even if its behind Poe (an actual New Republic pilot) and Rey (Luke's last student).
That’s the entire reason why they’re numerous. There was no-one in the unknown regions to keep them in line, to spy on them. They were able to build a large fleet without hinderance.
The New Republic didn’t consist they a threat, so they were not keeping tabs on them.
That's not accurate. The First Order existed out in the Unknown Regions, largely unmonitored and regarded as little more than a minor ex-Imperial wannabe that didn't constitute a major threat. Leia was considered a war monger for daring to insist that they represented a danger to the Republic. A bit of a Patton-esque feel about Stalin post WW2 and the government's reluctance to engage in another war.
One aspect of TFA that I didn't notice until listened to a commentary with Sam Witwer was that Poe is shocked by the size of the Finalizer at the beginning of the film. Such a reaction indicates that there is a lack of awareness on the part of the Resistance of just how large the First Order has become.
What appears to be a scan from Empire Magazine's 2019 movie preview issue has revealed that Ep. IX will take place one year after The Last Jedi.
If this is true then I'm not surprised, I was expecting more of a time jump this time.
If this is true then I'm not surprised, I was expecting more of a time jump this time.
