I don't know what you know. I thought it served the story just fine.
Oh, and the books had those characters dragged through the mud, and Han's son still feel to the Dark Side and caused terror for the family. But, at least they lived...
Episode IX Speculation and Discussion
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Oh, and the books had those characters dragged through the mud, and Han's son still feel to the Dark Side and caused terror for the family. But, at least they lived...
Anyone with even a tiny bit of knowledge about filmic Star Wars should have expected both Han and Luke's deaths, and if you're complaining about them, you're either not really a fan or else can't bring yourself to let go of an erroneous sense of entitlement and ownership.
I would be curious, as a bit of a thought experiment, if the Star Wars fans who grew up with the PT (as in, watched them 1-6) felt a similar way with Obi-Wan's death?
That's a good point. Did anyone care about Anakin's death or his fall to the Dark Side?
On a more general note, I had another personal musing. I have not made a secret of my irritation towards the EU in terms of how they handled the characters. With that said, I use to enjoy the Jedi Academy and Young Jedi Knight Series. I read several books in those series, until the Vong. At that point in time it stopped fun. The Republic faces a catastrophic threat and it feels like the heroes can't win. So, I stopped reading it.
I'm genuinely confused by the notion of an obligation to continue a story just because I'm a fan of the overall series. If the story isn't enjoyable then it pretty much ceases to exist for me.
I did.
If a person who has complaining about Han and Luke's deaths are not fans or is someone who cannot let go of an "erroneous sense of entitlement"? WTF????
Why on earth would you make such a sweeping judgment upon those who didn't care for what happened to Han and Luke? There are people who simply didn't like that those two were killed. And there are those who didn't like how Han or Luke were killed. There is nothing wrong with that. And have you considered that not everyone disliked one or both deaths for the same reason?
On the same level as Luke and Han?
People don't have to like Luke and Han's deaths, but there's a difference between disliking something and being critical of it and complaining about the fact that it happened at all as if there wasn't well-documented justification for it to happen.
Han and Luke's deaths, regardless of whether or not people were happy with them, were neither unusual or out of line, and followed well-known and well-established precedents from previous films in the series, and complaints to that effect are, IMO, an indication that the person complaining either doesn't know enough about the series to be considered a fan of it or else feels that Han and Luke shouldn't have died because it's not what they, as a fan, would have done.
You're free to disagree with my assessment of things, but there was nothing remotely out of line about what I said.
I was fine with Hans death. I knew Ford didn't want to carry on with the role and he is knocking on a bit. I was less happy with Lukes death, I feel like I didn't get to see enough of him, but ultimately I'm not bothered, it was always going to happen in this sequel trilogy.
In regards to Ford, he hadn't played the character in 32 years and most likely hadn't given it a second's thought in all that time, so to come back to the role that honestly, made his career just to kill him off seems stupid to me. If he had been typecast as Solo, I could understand his attitude, but he wasn't. He left the role behind long ago. If Han continues in the novels and they just don't address that pointless death, I'll be fine with it, but you know the rule, "if it's onscreen, it's canon", so.......
And as for Luke, his whole story is just moronic. In the OT, he's regarded as The New Hope", the one that will rebuild the Jedi Order, and the old novels and comics had him doing just that. But these movies gut that in favor of Rey which basically makes Luke's entire life pointless. A better way to go should have been having Luke's Jedi survive Ren's attack and Luke and his Jedi are searching the galaxy tying to find the fallen students. Rey is one of Luke's Padawans and the story could still focus on her without destroying Luke's accomplishments in order to build up Rey.
^ It's common knowledge that Harrison wanted Han to die in Return of the Jedi.
And this idea that Luke is less heroic because he failed with Ben is BS and is the perfect example of what I was talking about with my "entitlement and ownership" comment.
And this idea that Luke is less heroic because he failed with Ben is BS and is the perfect example of what I was talking about with my "entitlement and ownership" comment.
Better way to whom? Because, as much as I enjoy Star Wars I'll note this regarding the franchise. It does not function well without the heroes being the underdogs. The PT has the Jedi square off against thousands of battle droids. The EU had the New Republic constantly facing larger and larger threats. The books even had the destruction of the New Republic!!!! Someone explained to me why the books can get away with it but films cannot? I don't buy the "if its onscreen it's canon" comment. I don't regard Clone Wars or Rebels as canon, and if I didn't care for the ST then I'd be done with it. I lived for multiple years without the books, or movies, and I can do it again. If Star Wars consisted of the OT I would be happy with it, and need nothing additional.
You're right. I got confused. This quote here:
"taking all of the issues that religion represents and trying to distil them down into a more modern and more easily accessible construct that people can grab onto to accept the fact that there is a greater mystery out there”.
That was actually by the guy behind the Fast and the Furious movies...
I'm honestly baffled that people posting on a Star Wars message board don't think there's just a tiny bit more depth behind Star Wars than the average movie. I mean, it's well-known how much time Lucas spent researching spiritual issues, psychology, and Campbell's monomyth before creating the original trilogy. Do you really think that didn't make a difference?
Because many of them are acting like entitled and pertulant brats whilst in my presence...so to speak. And as I’m not deaf, blind, and numb, I tend to react to stimuli.
Especially when said stimuli is a loud, aggressive, unvaried, 12-month-long unceasing whine.
Tachnically. He apparently came back because he liked the script, and, err...the opportunities it took with the character.
https://www.rollingstone.com/movies...rce-awakens-and-the-return-of-han-solo-50370/
I should note that I do take Ford at his word. Why wouldnt I? But I kinda doubt that’s the sort of answer that the ‘it disrespects his past work!’ crowd are looking for.
Except the revelation that he wanted Han dead (and that he considered Han’s arc to pretty much be done by ESB) came out long after the original movies finished up. We’d never have known if he didn’t ‘give a second thought.’ Hell, he talks about it in that interview I just posted.
Plus, there’s a plethora of evidence to suggest Ford’s brain just doesn’t work the way you’re claiming. For eg. He used to feel pretty strongly about the ‘is Deckard a replicant’ argument and tear into the voiceover changing his character, despite playing that character once.
He might not care about the characters in the same way we do, but ‘not gave a second thought’ isn’t the right word either.
It would depend on the audience member. I would hesitate in saying that the reason Star Wars has staying power is just because of the monomyth or Jungian psychology. Like any other creative work it is a myriad of factors, not just those factors.
Depth is also a matter of subjective experience. I regard Chronicles of Riddick a far more interesting tale in to the psychology of an anti-hero trope than I do say Fight Club, while others regard Riddick as little more than pointless nonsense.
Do I think there is a bit more depth? Yes, but I am completely biased and have spent the better part of 20 years saturated in that culture and crafting my own meaning from those experiences.
Well as far as canon goes, that's the way it works with Star Trek, so I can only assume it's the same with Star Wars or any other TV and movie series for that matter.
And I agree with your comment about if Star Wars had stopped with the OT. I feel the same, and I'm one of those who enjoyed the Prequels.
But, I'm not talking about canon. I'm talking about personal enjoyment of the story. I have a friend who is a huge Qui-Gon Jinn fan and writes fan fiction. Guess what? In her mind Qui-Gon doesn't die. That's her head canon, I guess would be the phrase.
At the risk of sounding pedantic or argumentative I really don't see the need to continue watching/reading/engaging with something that causes frustration. I still have the Star Wars movies that I enjoyed the most available to me, as well as all the other ancillary material that I can chose to consume.
Exactly. You've just worded (in a much better fashion) my response to hughlobes.
So, you’re kinda agreeing with me. I never said the background stuff is all that makes Star Wars popular. I said, it’s the combination of that research with a very simple, exciting story that makes the original trilogy so unique, which is exactly what George Lucas has said happened. Like you said, popularity is down to "a myriad of factors". Well, I'm arguing that the new movies have lost one of those factors, and I think it's the one that makes Star Wars feel unique.
Remember, I'm objecting to the idea that these movies need be nothing more than entertaining action with no depth. Sure, opinions are going to change between individual audience members, but a whole lot of audience members didn't turn up for Solo and people didn't see The Last Jedi as much as The Force Awakens. Honestly, didn't bother seeing it myself until it was on Amazon.
Are there several factors why this is happening? Sure, but a big one is that people just aren't as interested. What we're seeing now is all action with nothing behind it, and box office takings continue to fall dramatically.
