Episode "Fury" - Which timeline do the previous episodes belong?

[marsh8472]

In the beginning of episode "Fury", Voyager falls for Kes's deception then she went back in time where she sedated herself, poisoned Tuvok, attacked Janeway, started a conflict between the Vadiins that led to massive hull ruptures and boarding parties from the Vadiin ship. I would think all of those events would change the future events.

So were the events of season 1 through season 6 a part of the timeline before Kes went back in time (in the beginning of episode "Fury") or after they stopped her from going back in time (at the end of episode "Fury")? Or do the events turn out exactly the same in both timeline's somehow? The sequence do appear nearly the same in both timelines like Tuvok's birthday, him blowing out the candles.

 

[Sophie74656]

Uh oh....this thread will start something


As it was shown in the episode the same sequence of events happened both times

 

[marsh8472]

Here's a clue

From episode "Phage"

JANEWAY: Wait a minute. The rock is warmer here.
KIM: You're right, Captain. There's a two degree differential in this section of the wall.
TUVOK: There are no natural geological phenomena that could be creating this heat source.
JANEWAY: Let's make a little heat of our own.
(The four line up in the cavern entrance and fire phasers at the rock face. The tunnel appears.)
TUVOK: There was a highly sophisticated forcefield in place.

Episode "Faces" might have a clue

KIM: Captain, take a look at this. Using our tricorder data I've been able to scan the entire planet for the forcefield signature, and it looks like the field surrounds an area more than six hundred kilometres in circumference.
JANEWAY: Is there any way to scan inside it?
KIM: Every reconfiguration I've tried has failed.
JANEWAY: If it's the same kind of forcefield that the Vidiians used the last time we ran into them, why didn't our phasers breach it?

Since the last time they ran into the Vidiians before episode "Faces" was episode "Phage" in the original timeline, in the altered timeline saying "the last time we ran into them" would not actually be a correct statement. This implies that episode "Faces" is from the unaltered timeline.

Unfortunately that could mean that once that timeline was altered by Kes the events from the middle of season 1 until episode "Fury" did not actually happen the way we saw in the episodes.

 

[Sophie74656]

Here's a clue

From episode "Phage"

JANEWAY: Wait a minute. The rock is warmer here.
KIM: You're right, Captain. There's a two degree differential in this section of the wall.
TUVOK: There are no natural geological phenomena that could be creating this heat source.
JANEWAY: Let's make a little heat of our own.
(The four line up in the cavern entrance and fire phasers at the rock face. The tunnel appears.)
TUVOK: There was a highly sophisticated forcefield in place.

Episode "Faces" might have a clue

KIM: Captain, take a look at this. Using our tricorder data I've been able to scan the entire planet for the forcefield signature, and it looks like the field surrounds an area more than six hundred kilometres in circumference.
JANEWAY: Is there any way to scan inside it?
KIM: Every reconfiguration I've tried has failed.
JANEWAY: If it's the same kind of forcefield that the Vidiians used the last time we ran into them, why didn't our phasers breach it?

Since the last time they ran into the Vidiians before episode "Faces" was episode "Phage" in the original timeline, in the altered timeline saying "the last time we ran into them" would not actually be a correct statement. This implies that episode "Faces" is from the unaltered timeline.

Unfortunately that could mean that once that timeline was altered by Kes the events from the middle of season 1 until episode "Fury" did not actually happen the way we saw in the episodes.

I'm not understanding what these lines are pointing out.

Since these episodes were written years before anyone had written Fury there is no way that there are any intentional clues about any alternate timeline.

 

[marsh8472]

I'm not understanding what these lines are pointing out.

Since these episodes were written years before anyone had written Fury there is no way that there are any intentional clues about any alternate timeline.

For practical reasons I would expect the continuity of the series to fit with an unaltered past too. But if Kes changed all that, then the continuity of future episodes was likely to be altered as well. Tuvok also gave the crew foreknowledge about the future like Naomi Wildman, the delta flyer, seven and the borg children, Torres being killed from the warp core.

 

[marsh8472]

 

[Jedman67]

I imagine an alternate future where the writers of season 6 went back in time to make sure season 1 fit the new continuity. Unfortunately, they forgot to instruct their earlier counterparts to account for seasons 2-5, so voyager actually has three separate timelines, all slightly different, in the staff writers room.

 

[marsh8472]

 

[Prax]

QUOTE="marsh8472, post: 11903534, member: 73618"]

[/QUOTE]
It's the same timeline. And there is only one timeline. And I can prove it.

Bear with me...(Bare? It has to be 'bear' but it sure looks funny)

Anyways, next time you watch Voyager straight through, pay attention to Tuvok's facial expressions and the looks he gives Janeway whenever a pivotal event takes place. He knows to keep his mouth shut. When you know bits and pieces of your own future, you don't go blabbering about them, as that's bad business. Why do you think he spends all that time teaching Kes Vulcan meditation techniques?

Just watch when he gets those shifty eyes. You'll see...

Or Janeway. Why do you think she was so confident that a partnership WITH THE BORG was a GOOD PLAN? She knew it would work out.

 

[marsh8472]

QUOTE="marsh8472, post: 11903534, member: 73618"]

It's the same timeline. And there is only one timeline. And I can prove it.

Bear with me...(Bare? It has to be 'bear' but it sure looks funny)

Anyways, next time you watch Voyager straight through, pay attention to Tuvok's facial expressions and the looks he gives Janeway whenever a pivotal event takes place. He knows to keep his mouth shut. When you know bits and pieces of your own future, you don't go blabbering about them, as that's bad business. Why do you think he spends all that time teaching Kes Vulcan meditation techniques?

Just watch when he gets those shifty eyes. You'll see...

Or Janeway. Why do you think she was so confident that a partnership WITH THE BORG was a GOOD PLAN? She knew it would work out.

But in beginning Kes's ship collides with Voyager and B'Elanna is killed and at the end her ship bounces off the shield and no one is killed. If it's all one timeline why are there two different outcomes there?

Before that too I can see differences in the scenes. Like when Janeway walks out of her ready room originally she's just smirking where you don't see any of her teeth. But at the end of the episode she has a big smile on her face as she's walking out of her ready room and you can see her teeth there

 

[Jedman67]

Like when Janeway walks out of her ready room originally she's just smirking where you don't see any of her teeth. But at the end of the episode she has a big smile on her face as she's walking out of her ready room and you can see her teeth there

Tuvok is also a dentist.

 

[Lynx]

I was going to write something really nasty about this episode and those who created it.
But just the thought of this episode made me puke over the keyboard!

So I guess i will focus on something more pleasant event in Voyager instead.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm still not sure whether anything we saw before "Year of Hell" counts.

Or "Before and After".

Or "Relativity".

Or how many episodes were really the duplicates from "Course: Oblivion".

 

[Sophie74656]

it's not a difficult concept. Everything counts. Nothing was changed. Nothing before Course Oblivion was with the duplicates.

 

[marsh8472]

Just remember the DS9 tribble episode

DULMUR: Your men could've avoided that fight, Captain.
LUCSLY: Regulation one fifty seven, section three, paragraph eighteen. Starfleet officers shall take all necessary precautions to minimise any participation in historical events.
SISKO: All right. It was a mistake. But there were no lasting repercussions.
DULMUR: How do you know that? For all we know, we could be living in an alternate timeline right now.

 

[marsh8472]

I'm still not sure whether anything we saw before "Year of Hell" counts.

Or "Before and After".

Or "Relativity".

Or how many episodes were really the duplicates from "Course: Oblivion".

Yea this conversation could be made about many of the time travel episodes. This episode "Fury" had some pretty blatant changes to historical events.

 

[Prax]

I was going to write something really nasty about this episode and those who created it.
But just the thought of this episode made me puke over the keyboard!

So I guess i will focus on something more pleasant event in Voyager instead.

You're a "glass half empty" kind of cat, aren't you....

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The altered timeline is the one where Romulus was destroyed.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The altered timeline is the one where Romulus was destroyed.

It's all Kes' fault!

 

[Lynx]

You're a "glass half empty" kind of cat, aren't you....

Well maybe, but I can't find anything positive about that horrible excuse for a Star Trek Voyager episode.