Episode; Empath

[RobertScorpio]

I just watched this episode yesterday on a whim. This was one of those episodes I hated as a kid because it was just so boring and that cornball music plays all through it.

Even though it wouldn't have helped at all, but why didn't they even think about Spock mind-melding with Gem? Of all the times we needed to know what a non-speaking person knew, this was it. Or is there a line that I just didn't see where it is mentioned but decided against?

Overall, not as bad as I remembered. Still hate that hokey MUSAK stuff though....yuck.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[trevanian]

I just watched this episode yesterday on a whim. This was one of those episodes I hated as a kid because it was just so boring and that cornball music plays all through it.

Even though it wouldn't have helped at all, but why didn't they even think about Spock mind-melding with Gem? Of all the times we needed to know what a non-speaking person knew, this was it. Or is there a line that I just didn't see where it is mentioned but decided against?

Overall, not as bad as I remembered. Still hate that hokey MUSAK stuff though....yuck.

Rob
Scorpio

Loved the music, loved the episode (was the last one I saw 'new' ... had already seen ARENA about 20 times by the time I saw EMPATH.

Definitely among the top hours of trek ever, for me up there with BALANCE OF TERROR and DOOMSDAY MACHINE and the 'go to your quarters or I'll pick you up and carry you there' delivery of Shat's in CHARLIE X.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I just watched this episode yesterday on a whim. This was one of those episodes I hated as a kid because it was just so boring and that cornball music plays all through it.

Even though it wouldn't have helped at all, but why didn't they even think about Spock mind-melding with Gem? Of all the times we needed to know what a non-speaking person knew, this was it. Or is there a line that I just didn't see where it is mentioned but decided against?

Overall, not as bad as I remembered. Still hate that hokey MUSAK stuff though....yuck.

Rob
Scorpio

Loved the music, loved the episode (was the last one I saw 'new' ... had already seen ARENA about 20 times by the time I saw EMPATH.

Definitely among the top hours of trek ever, for me up there with BALANCE OF TERROR and DOOMSDAY MACHINE and the 'go to your quarters or I'll pick you up and carry you there' delivery of Shat's in CHARLIE X.

It has improved, in my mind, with this recent viewing. I just wish they would have had better music. I mean, its almost as if the Carpenters are going to start singin at one point..

So, was there a reason why Spock didn't even think about Mind melding with her?

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Christopher]

George Duning's score for "The Empath" is the most poignant, soulful music ever written for Star Trek. The fact that its ensemble included a Yamaha organ does not change that. Indeed, the Yamaha organ was still a new instrument at the time, and "The Empath" was the first Hollywood score ever to make use of it. It may sound hokey to your ears because of that instrument's later associations, but for its time it was highly innovative. And within the context of the broader ensemble and its lush, romantic strings, it works pretty well.

As for the mind meld, given that Gem had her own special powers that were activated by touch, it might not have been a very good idea. Besides, what information, exactly, do you think the characters needed to learn from her? She was an experimental subject, probably no more in the loop than they were. And the Vians weren't particularly reticent about giving exposition when asked.

 

[maryh]

You do get the impression that Gem didn't know what was happening, she "felt" rather than "knew". She was an empath, we don't know if she was telepathic. Melding with didn't look like it would reveal much useful information. Her race is focussed on feelings not necessarily thoughts.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I loved this one as a kid. When I rewatched it as an adult, I couldn't believe how flat-out perverse it was! Didn't get that at all as a kid.

 

[Christopher]

I loved this one as a kid. When I rewatched it as an adult, I couldn't believe how flat-out perverse it was! Didn't get that at all as a kid.

I'm not sure what you mean. Although it does serve as sort of the archetype of the "hurt-comfort" trope of fan fiction.

 

[Mallory]

I'm one of the apparent few who actually like this episode. I thought it did a great job with the Big Three, better than most third season episodes did.

 

[Christopher]

I'm one of the apparent few who actually like this episode. I thought it did a great job with the Big Three, better than most third season episodes did.

It's a personal favorite of mine.

 

[Warp14]

The Empath to me always felt like an episode of The Outer Limits except with Star Trek characters.

 

[Michael]

I'm one of the apparent few who actually like this episode. I thought it did a great job with the Big Three, better than most third season episodes did.

It's a personal favorite of mine.

Well, I love it, too. Definitely one of season three's finest episodes.

 

[trevanian]

The Empath to me always felt like an episode of The Outer Limits except with Star Trek characters.

It pretty much IS. The guy who directed it also directed the OL shot largely on limbo sets where the humans (among them James Shigeta and a very young Martin Sheen) are being interrogated by an alien.He made more of a virtue out of having no sets than just about anybody else on Trek, except maybe McEveety on SPECTRE.

I have a feeling if anybody goes back to mess with TOS again (as in overhauling the liveaction sets with CG, now that they're done cartooning up the ship exteriors), this is going to be the episode on the chopping block, loaded up with miles of needless CG set extensions of alien machinery and underground caverns. Just one more reason to cling to the preSpecEd editions on DVD.

 

[Christopher]

I have a feeling if anybody goes back to mess with TOS again (as in overhauling the liveaction sets with CG, now that they're done cartooning up the ship exteriors), this is going to be the episode on the chopping block, loaded up with miles of needless CG set extensions of alien machinery and underground caverns. Just one more reason to cling to the preSpecEd editions on DVD.

Oh, I don't think so. Anyone involved in such a project would surely be doing it as a labor of love, and would therefore value the surreal minimalism of "The Empath" as one of its great strengths.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I loved this one as a kid. When I rewatched it as an adult, I couldn't believe how flat-out perverse it was! Didn't get that at all as a kid.

I'm not sure what you mean. Although it does serve as sort of the archetype of the "hurt-comfort" trope of fan fiction.

I find it very sadistic, creepy and semi-uncomfortable to watch nowadays. It goes a bit over the line from "here's an episode about sadism" into "here's an episode for sadists."

 

[trevanian]

I have a feeling if anybody goes back to mess with TOS again (as in overhauling the liveaction sets with CG, now that they're done cartooning up the ship exteriors), this is going to be the episode on the chopping block, loaded up with miles of needless CG set extensions of alien machinery and underground caverns. Just one more reason to cling to the preSpecEd editions on DVD.

Oh, I don't think so. Anyone involved in such a project would surely be doing it as a labor of love, and would therefore value the surreal minimalism of "The Empath" as one of its great strengths.

Labor of love? I thought the line was, 'make it accessible to people who think it looks too hokey?' At least for the recent alterations, that was the claim.

I don't doubt that the digitalstream folks who first tried CG on DOOMSDAY MACHINE did it out of love (though that kind of love, IMO, can kill), but the thought behind touching up TOS for a new release was more about making it for modern mainstream (which will mean it'll look as out of date in 10 years to everybody else as it does now to me.)

When trekmovie runs the before and afters on the alterations, it floors me that anybody likes the CG stuff -- the blacks look bad, and it like the Enterprise travels with a bounce light card above it at all times (I've heard criticisms of the overlit film models, but if you want to take that to extremes, then if you had a fast enough lens, there WOULD be a bright side and a dark side unless you were WAY way outsystem, plus the TOS elements have snap and sometimes even scale.) I've seen good CG ship stuff (some of it done on MACs, not big workhorse machines), and that ain't even close.

My belief remains that if the notion of making it look good for a contemporary audience drives the 'improvements,' that they're gonna say, 'hey it's all black back there, too boring," and start slapping down the set extensions.

 

[Phoenicianknight]

I saw the "Empath" for the first time a couple years ago.

I was flipping through the channels, and the intro of CST was starting up. I thought cool, I haven't watch any Classic Star Trek in a while. Then this epsiode comes on that I had never seen before (In my 30 years of watching Trek!)

Man, it was a real treat.

 

[voggmo]

Talk about hope for a better future, this episode had it in spades. Delving into Metaphysical terrain is one of the coolest escapism cards TOS had to play.

 

[Christopher]

I find it very sadistic, creepy and semi-uncomfortable to watch nowadays. It goes a bit over the line from "here's an episode about sadism" into "here's an episode for sadists."

I find that surprising. I'm not a sadist and I love the episode. And it's quite mild compared to something like 24, where it's the "hero" engaging in the torture. That's what I consider sadistic.

And it's not an episode about sadism. It's an episode about compassion. About empathy, in the literal sense (rather than the odd redefinition it was given in the story). The Vians are trying to awaken Gem's sense of compassion and self-sacrifice, because that's what they consider the most important trait in judging a species' worthiness, but Kirk makes them realize that they've lost sight of their own capacity for empathy, and it's when they choose to do the compassionate thing that they save Gem's people -- and perhaps themselves.

 

[RAMA]

I find it very sadistic, creepy and semi-uncomfortable to watch nowadays. It goes a bit over the line from "here's an episode about sadism" into "here's an episode for sadists."

I find that surprising. I'm not a sadist and I love the episode. And it's quite mild compared to something like 24, where it's the "hero" engaging in the torture. That's what I consider sadistic.

And it's not an episode about sadism. It's an episode about compassion. About empathy, in the literal sense (rather than the odd redefinition it was given in the story). The Vians are trying to awaken Gem's sense of compassion and self-sacrifice, because that's what they consider the most important trait in judging a species' worthiness, but Kirk makes them realize that they've lost sight of their own capacity for empathy, and it's when they choose to do the compassionate thing that they save Gem's people -- and perhaps themselves.

Even as a kid I understood what they weretrying to do with the episode, but it still feels like an odd performance piece.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

I don't doubt that the digitalstream folks who first tried CG on DOOMSDAY MACHINE did it out of love (though that kind of love, IMO, can kill), but the thought behind touching up TOS for a new release was more about making it for modern mainstream (which will mean it'll look as out of date in 10 years to everybody else as it does now to me.)

When trekmovie runs the before and afters on the alterations, it floors me that anybody likes the CG stuff -- the blacks look bad, and it like the Enterprise travels with a bounce light card above it at all times

My belief remains that if the notion of making it look good for a contemporary audience drives the 'improvements,' that they're gonna say, 'hey it's all black back there, too boring," and start slapping down the set extensions.

It floors me when anyone can look at any of the original shots and honestly say they're better. Now that's all about nostalgia, not reality. Some people are so used to it after watching it 30 times the can't see the forest for the trees.

BTW I knew one of the guys who worked on the Digital Stream FX and he DID love TOS. I think Paramount/CBS waited until the CGI was just at the right sophistication level (B5 was not it) to work on the series, combined with making it fit for HD.

RAMA