Enterprise vs Trek 2009

[Overgeeked]

It's the difference between a competent and unremarkable ability to find and fill continuity gaps and a stunning, whirlwind display of infectious enthusiasm and instantly memorable characters.

There's not a one character on Enterprise half as interesting as any of the leads were after three lines in this movie.

Ha. They're only instantly memorable because they've been around for 40+ years. Yeah.

Not having bee able to get through the first season, is it possible to just watch the fourth and get what's going on?

I'm not a fan of the Xindi stuff. You can definitely skip that and still know what's going on. You may like those episodes though...

I want Shran to get sucked into a black hole and be in Star Trek XII. I would die from happiness.

Ent is the only show not affected by the time travel in Trek '09. Admiral Archer's still kicking around. I'm sure Shran's flying around screaming at someone. Maybe he's an admiral too.

(They really need an andorian smily.)

 

[Peter the Younger]

I watched it all the way through, but I groaned and grumbled through most of it*, until Manny Coto took over. There were some continuity issues, to be sure, but the larger problem was the that the franchise was clearly stuck in a rut. The pontificating, the wooden dialogue, the technobabble, it was indistinguishable from the TNG era shows. By the end of the 3rd season, it became clear to methat if Star Trek was going to survive, it was going to have to be put in new hands, given to someone who wasn't afraid to do something radical.

In other words, ENT prepared me for Star Trek 2009.

* (Exception: I do think "Dead Stop" is a great episode, not only for ENT, but for Trek in general.)

 

[Thrawn]

Ha. They're only instantly memorable because they've been around for 40+ years. Yeah.

Well, for one thing, the people I took that had never seen Trek before would disagree with you on that.

But I'm actually talking about these characters distinct from their TOS counterparts, because in a lot of ways they really are quite different.

 

[Mr Awe]

Damn shame that was canceled.

I agree. The real shame is that it didn't start out the way it ended. Not sure if that would've saved it but at least we would have had 4 seasons with that quality level!

Mr Awe

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

I did watch the much lauded (at least by Enterprise fans), nonsensically titled mirror universe duology though. If that's an example of the fourth season's alleged "spectacular" writing, Trek (09) wins. Epically.

So, you'd judge the later seasons of DS9 by watching 'The Emperor's New Cloak'..? To choose a very a-typical episode of a series as your basis to form an opinion on is just plain weird dude...

So... you're putting the cream of Enterprise's 4th season up there with the dross from DS9?

 

[NumberOne]

....
I'm not talking about the temporal cold war or that, just the fourth season. The Vulcan stuff, the Andorian and Tellarite co-op in the Babel arc. The Reeves-Stevens and other writers who worked on that season put out some great stuff. Far fewer plot holes in the entire season than the two hours of Trek 2009.
...

Damn shame that was canceled.

It just started to get good when it was cancelled.

 

[Overgeeked]

Ha. They're only instantly memorable because they've been around for 40+ years. Yeah.

Well, for one thing, the people I took that had never seen Trek before would disagree with you on that.

But I'm actually talking about these characters distinct from their TOS counterparts, because in a lot of ways they really are quite different.

This film wasn't created in a vacuum. These characters have been a part of pop culture for more than four decades, even people who've never seen a single episode of Trek know who Kirk and Spock are.

Unless you can somehow induce amnesia, there's no real way to separate them from the originals. Again, these aren't original characters, simply riffs on existing ones. That Kirk is more arrogant, brash, and dickish is hardly distinct from the slightly less so TOS version. Or that Spock is more conflicted about his emotions is hardly some great departure from the emotionally conflicted version from TOS.

 

[startrekwatcher]

It really isn't fair to compare a tv series to a 2 hour film but I will say that if you look at some of the trilogies on ENT which are essentially a three act film anyway that they are far superior and satisfying compared to XI.

For instance, the final 3 season three episodes demonstrate how you can do a solid action film that has visual effects, exciting space battles, a fast pace yet also have a compelling story that includes quieter moments of reflection such as the Hoshi/Archer scene in "Zero Hour" or the Trip/Degra scene in "The Council" or the Reed/T'Pol scene in "The Council". It also took the time to provide interesting adversaries with plausible motivations where we can understand why they are doing what they are. I'd give this 3.5 stars out of 4.

And the Vulcan trilogy in season four shows how you can do an effective prequel storyline that doesn't just namedrop, which XI did, but actually effectively utilizes previously established elements--T'Pau, Sarek, katra, seh'let, IDIC, Romulans etc--to actually service an interesting epic story. I'd give this 3.5 stars as well compared to XI of 2.5

 

[Natural]

Enterprise was terrible. For me to go from hardcore trek fan (TOS/TNG/DS9) to someone who didn't even care if he missed an episode, it took an exceptionally bad show. There were a handful of good episodes, and it started improving a little, but the premise was tired, and the actors/characters were weak by ST standards. I don't think a movie which has saved the ST franchise from extended or permanent oblivion should be compared to a series which almost killed it (or at least continued the downward spiral which VOY started).

 

[Captain Fine]

I really liked the last two seasons personally. But the whole show really isn't that bad

 

[Phily B]

I'm rewatching Season 4 of Enterprise, not everyone's favorite show, I'm sure, but I'm noticing something wonderful: compared to the writing of Trek 2009, Enterprise is spectacular

Stopped reading here. Enterprise killed the franchise, andI pretty much turned off after the first season. None of the actors had any kind of charisma that would force you to turn in (Avery/PS)either.

The whole problem of Enterprise was that it shits on canon more than the new movie ever could.

 

[-Brett-]

I did watch the much lauded (at least by Enterprise fans), nonsensically titled mirror universe duology though. If that's an example of the fourth season's alleged "spectacular" writing, Trek (09) wins. Epically.

So, you'd judge the later seasons of DS9 by watching 'The Emperor's New Cloak'..?

If DS9 fans were nearly unanimously telling me that it was one of the greatest episodes of the series, some going so far as to call it one of the best episodes of Star Trek period, then yes I would.

 

[Tulin]

I'm rewatching Season 4 of Enterprise, not everyone's favorite show

QFT Jimmy.

 

[Flavius]

It just started to get good when it was cancelled.

That's a common misperception.

 

[Tulin]

Enterprise was terrible. For me to go from hardcore trek fan (TOS/TNG/DS9) to someone who didn't even care if he missed an episode, it took an exceptionally bad show.

Exactly how I felt, too.

I got about two thirds of the way through S3 and just kind of never bothered watching it again, even though a friend continued to download to the end of the series and gave me all of THOSE, as well.

I could just never muster the energy to CARE because what I saw was just SO meh!

the premise was tired, and the actors/characters were weak by ST standards.

This was exactly how I felt too!

I said it elsewhere - it was only part way through S1 that I could even tell Quantum Leap, North Carolina and Tea Totaller apart because they were SO bland!!! To this day, I could not tell you who was the engineer, security officer or tactical/weapons officer.

God this show was BAD.

 

[donners22]

Yeah, you're all wrong. This movie owns Enterprise handily and with no reservations on my part.

No, YOURE wrong. Enterprise owns this movie handily

It's the difference between a competent and unremarkable ability to find and fill continuity gaps and a stunning, whirlwind display of infectious enthusiasm and instantly memorable characters.

There's not a one character on Enterprise half as interesting as any of the leads were after three lines in this movie.

Trip Tucker ought to be the god of the Star Trek universe.

Stopped reading here. Enterprise killed the franchise[

If was on life support by the turn of the century as it was.

, andI pretty much turned off after the first season. None of the actors had any kind of charisma that would force you to turn in (Avery/PS)either.[/quote]

Avery would be one of the least-charasmatic actors I've seen.

The whole problem of Enterprise was that it shits on canon more than the new movie ever could.

But not nearly as much on common sense as the film.

 

[Overgeeked]

Enterprise didn't kill the franchise. Voyager didn't. And neither did DS9.

A lot of things helped to end the franchise on air. Overlapping series that over-saturated the market. From 1987 through 2005 you could find one or two new Trek episodes a week. Some very repetitive and poor writing (starting all the way back in TNG). Exploring parts of Trek that many felt was antithetical to Trek (the politics, economy, and religion of DS9). Repetitive stories (good sized chunk of Voyager). Canon violations and a perception of emulating Star Wars with its prequel (Enterprise). Throw on top of that UPNs poor support for Voyager and Enterprise. The over-arching pessimistic vibe of the B&B dynasty. The total summation of every bitch and complaint about every episode and series that's been posted here. Way more than can be talked about in a single post, much less something so obviously false and insipid as "Enterprise killed the franchise."

And by the way, take time to actually read the posts other people make. It helps the conversation immensely. I'm not comparing the entirety of Enterprise to the new film. I thought the first two season of Enterprise sucked. There were a few good episodes, but for the large part they were terrible.

 

[I am not Spock]

One can't really compare a 4 season long show with a two hour movie. Of course you're going to get a bit more character development and story arcs in 98 episodes than in two hours (even if ENT didn't really start to shine until its latter two seasons). In my view, Trek is better as a television franchise than as a movie one. You get a greater variety of storylines, and have more time to devote to all the characters, rather than focusing on one or two of them.