Nope. Completely inaccurate comparison because the market has shifted.
There's a simple answer to that-it has nothing to do with quality.
Enterprise is a better show than Discovery
- Thread starter bobjones
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Thanks to this thread, I remembered why I've been posting in the PIC Forum a lot more lately than I have in the DSC Forum, despite liking DSC a little bit more than PIC.
I just mean that Enterprise was not really given more time for the characters (and the writers) time to develop the character.
To be honest, I stopped watching Discovery after 2 or 3 seasons.
Maybe I might watch it in the future and change my mind.
But for now, I just don't care for Discovery.
To be honest, I stopped watching Discovery after 2 or 3 seasons.
Maybe I might watch it in the future and change my mind.
But for now, I just don't care for Discovery.
Eh? They had four seasons with over twenty episodes each. That's plenty of time to develop characters. Certainly other shows manage character development just fine within that timeframe. Some even manage it with less.
I have a good sense of Archer, Trip, and T'Pol right from the first season.
Archer: Well-meaning pioneer who gets in over his head. He has something to prove to the Vulcans because they screwed his father over and he wants to show what Humans can do for the Interstellar Community.
Trip: "Aw shucks!" southern gentleman who loves his engines and a piece of steak. Best buds with Archer. He wears his being a Human on his sleeve. He's also the comic relief. Sometimes he says things that Archer can't.
T'Pol: A Vulcan who starts off very stuck up and doesn't want to be around a bunch of knuckle-dragging caveman Earth people. Quick to point out how Archer the rest of the crew are messing up, quick to mention how Vulcans do things, but then she eventually comes around to Archer's way a little bit and starts to warm up to the crew, even though she still stays generally aloof.
Reed: He's the James Bond character trapped in a Star Trek series. He's all about gadgetry and weapons. Keeps to himself mostly, and is all about naval tradition. Stays this way for the next three seasons. Would've stayed this way had the series continued another three.
Phlox: Nice guy, cultured, has a lot of life experience, likes to explore, thinks outside the box when it comes to medicine, and that's largely the way he stays.
Mayweather: He grew up in Space, loves to pilot ships, and... and yeah! This is how it is all four seasons. Wouldn't have changed it if went seven.
Sato: She's nervous, is more competent than she realizes, and great at translating languages.
Had ENT been given Seasons 5-7, it would've done more with Archer, Trip, and T'Pol, but the other characters would've stayed the same. Or mostly the same. They would've shown more of Earth's alliance with Vulcan, Andor, and Taler. They probably would've shown the Earth/Romulan War. There would've been more TOS (and some TNG) stuff sprinkled in.
But as far as getting to know the characters? They were pretty much as developed as they were going to be. Three more seasons wouldn't have changed that.
Archer: Well-meaning pioneer who gets in over his head. He has something to prove to the Vulcans because they screwed his father over and he wants to show what Humans can do for the Interstellar Community.
Trip: "Aw shucks!" southern gentleman who loves his engines and a piece of steak. Best buds with Archer. He wears his being a Human on his sleeve. He's also the comic relief. Sometimes he says things that Archer can't.
T'Pol: A Vulcan who starts off very stuck up and doesn't want to be around a bunch of knuckle-dragging caveman Earth people. Quick to point out how Archer the rest of the crew are messing up, quick to mention how Vulcans do things, but then she eventually comes around to Archer's way a little bit and starts to warm up to the crew, even though she still stays generally aloof.
Reed: He's the James Bond character trapped in a Star Trek series. He's all about gadgetry and weapons. Keeps to himself mostly, and is all about naval tradition. Stays this way for the next three seasons. Would've stayed this way had the series continued another three.
Phlox: Nice guy, cultured, has a lot of life experience, likes to explore, thinks outside the box when it comes to medicine, and that's largely the way he stays.
Mayweather: He grew up in Space, loves to pilot ships, and... and yeah! This is how it is all four seasons. Wouldn't have changed it if went seven.
Sato: She's nervous, is more competent than she realizes, and great at translating languages.
Had ENT been given Seasons 5-7, it would've done more with Archer, Trip, and T'Pol, but the other characters would've stayed the same. Or mostly the same. They would've shown more of Earth's alliance with Vulcan, Andor, and Taler. They probably would've shown the Earth/Romulan War. There would've been more TOS (and some TNG) stuff sprinkled in.
But as far as getting to know the characters? They were pretty much as developed as they were going to be. Three more seasons wouldn't have changed that.
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How much more time did they need? 4 seasons isn't enough to develop characters?
Burnham made bad decisions and paid prices for them. Archer committed an act of piracy against a civilian starship and left them adrift in space without facing any consequences because he was a character in a 9/11 revenge fantasy. The Xindi arc was less boring on average than the first two seasons of Enterprise, but it was also the least Star Trek of any season of any series of Star Trek.
If you can't find your legs in four seasons, maybe you just don't have any legs to stand on.
Well, there were emotional consequences.
From "A Night in Sickbay:"
T'POL: You read the Kreetassan's document?
ARCHER: Sorry. Sorry, I'm a little on edge. I haven't slept very much but I'm doing the breast I, the best I can.
* * *
Truly Oscar-worthy writing. DIS has never equaled this level of artistic accomplishment. </sarcasm>
T'POL: You read the Kreetassan's document?
ARCHER: Sorry. Sorry, I'm a little on edge. I haven't slept very much but I'm doing the breast I, the best I can.
* * *
Truly Oscar-worthy writing. DIS has never equaled this level of artistic accomplishment. </sarcasm>
Grades 6-8 in American schools. It's largely replaced what we used to call "Junior High", grades 7-8.
That's some garbage dialog. That's good?
Every episode of Star Trek: Discovery is better than "A Night in Sickbay." Star Trek: Enterprise only leveled up to the same quality as DIS's worst episodes when ENT reached the third episode of its fourth season.
I only responded to the thing he said that was worth responding to.
EDITED TO ADD: I also think there's some jealousy that ENT was cancelled right as it found its footing and DSC wasn't.
EDITED TO ADD: I also think there's some jealousy that ENT was cancelled right as it found its footing and DSC wasn't.
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ENT vs. DISCO? This is a tough one. I do like ENT a little better, but it started off really rough for me, and what put me over were its last two seasons. Comparatively, I liked ENT Seasons 3 and 4 more than DISCO's. But I think DISCO had a stronger first two seasons and was more compelling to watch.
When it comes to leads, I think Burnham got a lot more development than Archer, and DISCO had more heightened stakes. The DISCO villains-Klingons and later Terran Empire-were clearer than the relatively ill-defined Suliban and Future Guy.
I do think both shows suffered from a lack of developing their ensemble casts, but I do think ENT did it better than DISCO did out the gate. And both also made some changes to Trek species that I didn't care for, but ENT didn't go as radical in changing the Vulcans as DISCO did with the Klingons. I do prefer how ENT largely kept to the visual aesthetic of other Trek series and movies more than DISCO did in its first two seasons.
I got into Trek in the Berman era for the most part, so ENT just hits that nostalgia sweet spot in ways that DISCO doesn't. But I think DISCO has been more ambitious, taking bigger swings from jump, but that's also resulted in some bigger misses than ENT had.
I have to wonder how things would've turned out if DISCO had been the series that followed VOY. If the edgier, more serial-storytelling series had debuted in 2001, while it certainly would've been controversial, it might have fit in better with similar fare like nuBSG.
When it comes to leads, I think Burnham got a lot more development than Archer, and DISCO had more heightened stakes. The DISCO villains-Klingons and later Terran Empire-were clearer than the relatively ill-defined Suliban and Future Guy.
I do think both shows suffered from a lack of developing their ensemble casts, but I do think ENT did it better than DISCO did out the gate. And both also made some changes to Trek species that I didn't care for, but ENT didn't go as radical in changing the Vulcans as DISCO did with the Klingons. I do prefer how ENT largely kept to the visual aesthetic of other Trek series and movies more than DISCO did in its first two seasons.
I got into Trek in the Berman era for the most part, so ENT just hits that nostalgia sweet spot in ways that DISCO doesn't. But I think DISCO has been more ambitious, taking bigger swings from jump, but that's also resulted in some bigger misses than ENT had.
I have to wonder how things would've turned out if DISCO had been the series that followed VOY. If the edgier, more serial-storytelling series had debuted in 2001, while it certainly would've been controversial, it might have fit in better with similar fare like nuBSG.
Archer did suffer emotional consequences, but Burnham suffered those as well as legal consequences. She was made a pariah that had to re-earn trust, respect, and a place in Starfleet again. Archer (and arguably any other Trek captain/lead) never really faced anything so dire.
So, it would have sucked like nuBSG?
I like '00s BSG. Most of it, anyway.
I also like that DSC had a BSG-feeling during the first season. It disappeared as soon as Pike and the Enterprise showed up.
I also like that DSC had a BSG-feeling during the first season. It disappeared as soon as Pike and the Enterprise showed up.
