L
Lord Garth
Guest
Yeah... I think I'll end up waiting until the second weekend anyway.
ENTERPRISE design in the new film? (How many changes?)
- Thread starter gastrof
- Start date
I have no problem with the ship appearing in cameo... but if they're going for a younger crew, I don't understand why they'd be aboard the Enterprise, or even have the full TOS crew there.
I don't want to see any outward changes, but maybe they could show more detail. The Impulse thrusters firing a la TMP, some armored doors retracting to expose phaser turrets and photon torpedo tubes...etc.
I don't want to see any outward changes, but maybe they could show more detail. The Impulse thrusters firing a la TMP, some armored doors retracting to expose phaser turrets and photon torpedo tubes...etc.
L
Lord Garth
Guest
Oh, yeah, topic. 
The basic shape can stay the same, TMP-TUC are proof. I would leave the exterior largely the same, except with more subtle detail.
The interior? I'd do the best to retain the spirit of the 1701 but the chairs would have to be updated, the screensavers would look like screensavers, the colors would have to be richer in some cases and muted in others -- to add contrast -- and the sets would need added detail.
The release posters for Star Trek suggest it will be TOS with a larger budget and 2008 production values. Even the Enterprise-D was modified for Star Trek: Generations so it's a given the pre-refit original Enterprise will be modified.
The basic shape can stay the same, TMP-TUC are proof. I would leave the exterior largely the same, except with more subtle detail.
The interior? I'd do the best to retain the spirit of the 1701 but the chairs would have to be updated, the screensavers would look like screensavers, the colors would have to be richer in some cases and muted in others -- to add contrast -- and the sets would need added detail.
The release posters for Star Trek suggest it will be TOS with a larger budget and 2008 production values. Even the Enterprise-D was modified for Star Trek: Generations so it's a given the pre-refit original Enterprise will be modified.
Gooseneck. Think Gooseneck.
I'll accept whatever happens (What choice have I?) but I would be pretty surprised if they made significant changes to the Enterprise, externally. It's iconic. It's immediately recognizable. It still stands up.
Well, the Pike bridge is the same size as the TOS bridge. Changes between the pilots consisted of paint and replacement of some displays as well as adding some more stairs down from the upper level to the lower - the set was never enlarged.
When i said why does trek have to have mass appeal agian i was , meaning that the TOS was and is already got mass appeal,
and everyone knows about kirk and crew and the enterprise which is in a museam its the most famous spaceship from a tv show .Ask anyone and the know trek even if they dont watch it.
and everyone knows about kirk and crew and the enterprise which is in a museam its the most famous spaceship from a tv show .Ask anyone and the know trek even if they dont watch it.
gastrof said:
Ummm...
The DS9 episode used a half-sized model based on the original 11 foot one now at the Smithsonian. Except for size, it was IDENTICAL.
The ship seen in "In a Mirror, Darkly" wasn't any different either, from what I could tell.
Why do you say 'like in TMP or in the two other cases'?
TMP was changed, the other two were not.
I guess the words 'along the lines of' proved a little subtle for you. As did the word 'or', which by definition allows for alternatives.
I'm confused by your confusion - I didn't say that it should look like the ENT from The Motion Picture AND the one from Trials & Tribble-ations - which is what your reply seems to indicate that you took from my post. I said that it should like one OR the other of them. No contradiction there. Indecision, perhaps, but no contradiction.
I'm not insisting on any particular design and don't have any particular hard and fast rule as to how the ENT should look. That's why I said 'along the lines of' - I'm allowing scope for some change in its look.
I'm all for (or at least can cope with) some mild alterations as long as they stick reasonably faithfully to the classic design. Which they did in TMP. It was recognisably the same ship but with some upgrades.
In T&T and TAMD, as far as I could see, the ships depicted looked like the original ship, but were obviously more high-tech models. It was quite clear in each episode that you were not watching the original ship from the show, but they so faithfully captured the look of it whilst also updating it for the digital age that I really can't see why anyone complained about them.
That's what I meant in my earlier post. A faithful update of the ENT along the lines of - i.e. similar to either the one in TMP or the ones in T&T and IAMD. Hope your confusion is over.
They can make her look like a flying saucer for all I care. As long as it's a rollicking, entertaining movie that rakes in the dough and reinvigorates the franchise, that's all that really matters.
Captaindemotion said:
gastrof said:
Ummm...
The DS9 episode used a half-sized model based on the original 11 foot one now at the Smithsonian. Except for size, it was IDENTICAL.
The ship seen in "In a Mirror, Darkly" wasn't any different either, from what I could tell.
Why do you say 'like in TMP or in the two other cases'?
TMP was changed, the other two were not.
I guess the words 'along the lines of' proved a little subtle for you. As did the word 'or', which by definition allows for alternatives.
I'm confused by your confusion ...
Not surprising.
Let me put it in simple terms.
You say 'like TMP, DS9, or ENT'.
In one case the ship was changed from the original, in the other two examples it wasn't.
When you say all three represent the type of change you'd either accept or might LIKE to see, this strikes me as contradictory and in the latter two cases inappropriate, since in those cases the ship WASN'T changed.
Be nice.
The mods are watching and some of them are Q.
I can get on board with the "same shape, more detail" crowd.
Even with better filming, like they did with DS9 and Enterprise, the original model wouldn't work on the big screen.
On the other hand, if you're going to change it too much, why even bother calling it Star Trek? Right now, the brand name is close to worthless and if anything will only hinder this movie, not help it. Only reason to call it "Star Trek" is if it's going to be recognizable as Star Trek.
Even with better filming, like they did with DS9 and Enterprise, the original model wouldn't work on the big screen.
On the other hand, if you're going to change it too much, why even bother calling it Star Trek? Right now, the brand name is close to worthless and if anything will only hinder this movie, not help it. Only reason to call it "Star Trek" is if it's going to be recognizable as Star Trek.
Whatever it is, enough of this "Borg-erprize" stuff. 1701-E, NX-01, etc... They're all too dark and 'techno' looking. The new ship needs to look feminine, powerful, graceful, and high tech at the same time.
1701 refit/A did a pretty good job at that. So did Excelsior and Grissom.
Still, if they're going to go all "borgified" with all the techno details visible on the ship, then they should at least give it a light color scheme, like this:
1701 refit/A did a pretty good job at that. So did Excelsior and Grissom.
Still, if they're going to go all "borgified" with all the techno details visible on the ship, then they should at least give it a light color scheme, like this:
gastrof said:
Captaindemotion said:
gastrof said:
Ummm...
The DS9 episode used a half-sized model based on the original 11 foot one now at the Smithsonian. Except for size, it was IDENTICAL.
The ship seen in "In a Mirror, Darkly" wasn't any different either, from what I could tell.
Why do you say 'like in TMP or in the two other cases'?
TMP was changed, the other two were not.
I guess the words 'along the lines of' proved a little subtle for you. As did the word 'or', which by definition allows for alternatives.
I'm confused by your confusion ...
Not surprising.
Let me put it in simple terms.
You say 'like TMP, DS9, or ENT'.
In one case the ship was changed from the original, in the other two examples it wasn't.
When you say all three represent the type of change you'd either accept or might LIKE to see, this strikes me as contradictory and in the latter two cases inappropriate, since in those cases the ship WASN'T changed.
Be nice.
The mods are watching and some of them are Q.
Now I'm even more puzzled. I didn't think that my reply was any less nice than your original one or this one. And I wish you would stop just taking excerpts from my posts, as oppose to showing the bits where I fully explain myself.Anyway, as far as I could see, there were some changes to the Constitution ships in ENT and DS9. If you didn't see them, well fine. Eye of the beholder and all that. As someone else pointed out in another post, there was plenty of arguing by fans at the time(s) over those changes. Clearly those ships were more like the original Enterprise than the refit in TMP, but there was certainly minor tinkering to the look of them.
Minor tinkering to some extent is what I'd accept in this movie. Ideally it should be as little as in the two more recent shows; if it went as far as TMP, so be it. If they come up with an Enterprise which looks like the ENT-D or NX-01, I'll be disappointed.
I don't see anything contradictory about being prepared to cope with a degree of change or option of changes or with how I've explained that acceptance.
Hope this puts and end to the hair-splitting as I really can't be arsed any more.
But it was also designed for TV screens in 1966. When TMP came along they redid the ship top-to-bottom, but at least this took place after TOS so they had an excuse.
IMO the real acid test for Trek XI -- if it's supposed to be a canonical prequel -- is whether fans will accept any changes to the original TV 1701 design, no matter how minute. Even TOS Remastered, which has seen fit to alter so many aspects of the original series, have more or less left the Enterprise itself alone. That is to say you aren't seeing CG computer monitors being shoehorned into Spock's science station, for example. (Although I half expect that to happen one day).
There's already a tug-of-war over what is actually canonical with regards to TOS Classic vs. TOS Remastered (i.e. is Planet XYZ red as in TOS Classic or blue as in TOS Remastered?) so I can see a real donnybrook erupting if we suddenly see a drastic change to the 1701 like state-of-the-art computer stations on the bridge or some truly major change like having the movie-era nacelles. As I keep saying, if Paramount and Abrams finally admit that it's a reimagining, then it opens the door for all sorts of upgrades and changes, and IMO they'll be accepted because this won't be an attempt to tie in with TOS. If they insist it being an in-canon prequel, then they've hogtied themselves and you only have to look at the criticisms over minor changes to the NCC-1701-D as seen in These Are the Voyages, or the valid point that all the tech shown in ENT was more advanced then that seen in TOS, a point critics made over and over throughout its run. Just wait for the screaming to start.
Cheers
Alex
