ENTERPRISE design in the new film? (How many changes?)

[number6]

Cary L. Brown said:

Cary L. Brown said:

Starship Polaris said:

If what you're saying is that "nobody has made an argument that the DESIGN of the ship shouldn't be altered"...This board has been filled with people making that argument...

Yes.

...and making it quite soundly.

No.

Okay, then...

Please point out how it's "unsound" to state that for those who don't care about such things, which is the majority of the audience, making changes to the ship design won't have any effect, positive or negative. Do you disagree with that?

Please point out how it's "unsound" to state that for those who DO care about such things, with is a minority of the audience but a majority of FANS, most want the ship to be the ship that they know and are familiar with. Do you disagree with that?

Those two points have been made repeatedly. You don't think that they're "sound arguments?" Please point out, in whatever level of detail you think is appropriate, how they fail.

However, the argument that "if the ship isn't 'updated' it won't sell for modern audiences" isn't acceptable... it isn't an argument, it's merely an assertion, and carries no logical weight whatsoever. If you choose to make a point like that, you need to support it with a reason WHY you think that's the case. Fair enough?

I can't help but notice that this has gone unanswered. Sorta makes ya go "hmmmmmm." I'd have to conclude that there IS no answer... but instead of just assuming that, I'll re-raise the point.

I think my previous post addresses that as well.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's important that the uniforms be rubber and have nipples sculpted into them.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Huh?

 

[Franklin]

Starship Polaris said:
It's important that the uniforms be rubber and have nipples sculpted into them.

Keaton's Batman?

 

[seigezunt]

Starship Polaris said:
It's important that the uniforms be rubber and have nipples sculpted into them.

Photoshop, anyone?

 

[Kokomo]

Starship Polaris said:
It's important that the uniforms be rubber and have nipples sculpted into them.

I will only except that if the sets use waaaaay too much neon!

 

[Rat Boy]

Re-design apparently getting more and more likely:

So what about the beloved spaceship, the Enterprise NCC 1701? Is it going to look like the ship that we remember from the original show and films?

Nope. We have been told that the Enterprise has been redesigned. I have not been able to get specific details of how the old and new ship will differ but I have been told by multiple sources including people working on the film that the ship will indeed be different.

I’m a little lost for words, I always expected that the inside of the ship would be redesigned for the new film but that the actual look of ship, the hull, nacelles, saucer would remain intact. This is one report that I hope that we are wrong about but all indications are that we are not.

 

[DarthPipes]

I think of anything, the outward design of the Enterprise should remain intact. The inside of the ship, the technology, and the uniforms should definteily change though.

 

[The Doctor]

Rat Boy said:
Re-design apparently getting more and more likely:

So what about the beloved spaceship, the Enterprise NCC 1701? Is it going to look like the ship that we remember from the original show and films?

Nope. We have been told that the Enterprise has been redesigned. I have not been able to get specific details of how the old and new ship will differ but I have been told by multiple sources including people working on the film that the ship will indeed be different.

I’m a little lost for words, I always expected that the inside of the ship would be redesigned for the new film but that the actual look of ship, the hull, nacelles, saucer would remain intact. This is one report that I hope that we are wrong about but all indications are that we are not.

Of course the Enterprise has been redesigned for the upcoming movie. So long as the nacelle/saucer configuration is retained, no one will notice except the die-hards. Since they'll have to go see the movie a half-dozen times in order to catch every difference, it really doesn't matter how outraged they get.

 

[xortex]

The damn thing is hanging in the Nasa air and space musuem. I consider that classic and iconic.

 

[xortex]

Not the uniforms, too. Nothing is the same.

 

[Flake]

Re-designing it doesn't erase it [Original TOS ENT] from existence. It's still as iconic & classic regardless of what design alterations JJ agrees to for a new movie 42 years later.

 

[TeutonicNights]

Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away.

 

[Plum]

I might venture the general shape of the Enterprise is iconic, however, the details are mere style of the times.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

TeutonicNights said:
Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away.

What has that got to do with anything?

Just because something has always been a certain way doesn't mean that nothing different or new can ever be done.

That makes as much sense, or more, than your assertion. Either way, they're just general statements with no specific relevance as argument in this case.

 

[TeutonicNights]

Starship Polaris said:

TeutonicNights said:
Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away.

What has that got to do with anything?

Just because something has always been a certain way doesn't mean that nothing different or new can ever be done.

That makes as much sense, or more, than your assertion. Either way, they're just general statements with no specific relevance as argument in this case.

Ah well that was a little line from "Relics" that made Scotty smile. But that was from an outdated, soon-to-be-decanonized series called "Star Trek- the next Generation". Please forgive.

In my opinion, the old design doesn't look outdated at all.
But hey, Young minds, fresh ideas. I need to be tolerant.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

None of the Trek series is "soon-to-be-decanonized," including TNG.

Fans will have to get used to having several versions of these characters and designs around. People who like other things - say, "Superman" or "Batman" - seem to have even gotten to like that.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Flake said:
Re-designing it doesn't erase it [Original TOS ENT] from existence. It's still as iconic & classic regardless of what design alterations JJ agrees to for a new movie 42 years later.

That is true--just as the Sheissemacher Batman movies (to which Starship Polaris alluded above--I get it now, btw, nothing short of batnipples would be a canary in your coalmine; that's one hell of a critcal filter) didn't invalidate any iteration of Batman we'd seen to that point, good, bad or indifferent. Didn't stop them from being shitty, though.

More and more, it seems Paramount is all set to deliver more of the "It's the same only different" middle of the road crap we've been getting since Voyager, only this time it's meet the new boss, same as the old boss thrown in on top with a hefty, Michael Bay price tag. Which is good. Because if the movie alienates fans (no matter what the conventional wisdom here says, many of us will not see it if it sucks--I waited until second run for Nemesis and even then only saw it on impulse; by contrast, I drove fifty miles and took a train in order to see A Scanner Darkly) and fails to reach a wider audience (a tough sell no matter what the fucking ship looks like--Trek hasn't been popular since First Contact) it will flop and give Paramount a huge hit to its bottom line maybe Star Trek will get the long deserved rest it needs. As it is, bad product drives out the good.

 

[TeutonicNights]

If it's true, Orci's statements are purposely misleading.
They don't need any "solution" to "maintain canon", they just reboot and try to get away with it.
He also specifically mentions they will concentrate on things that "haven't been specified". Very misleading, indeed.

Oh yeah, I'm sure many many people will like a reboot. But I won't.

And like it or not. If you have a canon that has been developed, retconned and patched for 40 years on one side, and a two hour flick that blatantly contradicts that very canon on the other;
and when this movie will be the basis for all future installments, then the other series (except Enterprise...), will be de-facto decanonized. It will still exist, but not within the same canon.

Every canon should be judged individually.As Orci rightfully said, Star Trek *ain't* Batman.
Star Trek has maintained a level of coherence over the decades, that imho does not allow great changes (And certainly not considerable changes in the Enterprise ship model) without making the established canon meaningless.

 

[ancient]

I still think they should've turned the General Lee into a Hummer H2 or something. And have it be battleship grey, with flame decal covering it. It's called Progress!

Ye-Haw!