Enterprise arriving after the main battle over Vulcan

[Nerys Myk]

Its in there, I just checked.

What, you watched that scene of the movie?

Yes, see my edited post. I had the movie in my laptop because of another thread. So I jumped to that scene.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

I stand corrected.

Still, we don't know how clear the sensor details are from the Enterprise's, or other ship's perspective.

Warp trails may be far easier to detect than ships in close orbit.

So the general scenario is STILL plausible and logical.

 

[Pauln6]

I also think if Spock had beamed Kirk to the brig of the Starfleet outpost we could have saved ourselves 15 mnutes of pointless trekking through the snow just to fight a CGI monster

This has two fundamental problems.

1) We would then have twenty people complaining about Kirk and Spock conveniently finding a transporter pad in the middle of nowhere and
2) The entire CGI monster sequence was a key sequence in the film, deliberately inserted by the production crew for creative reasons; eliminating it is a little like rolling credits immediately after Kirk rescues Pike.

But most starfleet outposts will have a transporter. It's not convenient, it's a logical part of Trek lore. And we know that the base had access to a transporter because they use it and the only complaints I've read are:

a) it's silly that a 23rd century transporter can be modified so easily with just a computer program and;

b) even with the modifications the sheer distance transported is ridiculous because Enterprise has been travelling away for several hours at Warp 4.

I haven't seen any complaints that the base had a transporter.

A cgi monster sequence could still be there if they really were desperate for it. Maybe its necessary to power down the security grid to power up the mega transporter but somebody has to go outside to hook up some power converters... Ok I totally ripped that off Jurassic Park but it worked well in that film!

 

[OneBuckFilms]

a) We don't know for sure that computer programming would be enough, and it was the nature of the formula/program that led to the long distance transport.

b) Past Precedent: Assignment: Earth, Gary Seven got to Earth essentially via a long distance transporter beam. Additional: Scotty from 2387 had a lifetime to figure out the formula, even if he has never tried it before.

 

[Pauln6]

I stand corrected.

Still, we don't know how clear the sensor details are from the Enterprise's, or other ship's perspective.

Warp trails may be far easier to detect than ships in close orbit.

So the general scenario is STILL plausible and logical.

It's not really that plausible. Their sensors are good enough to transport somebody onto a ship that is light years away but not good enough to detect energy discharges? It's yet another inconsistency - the sensors are great when our heroes need them to be and rubbish when they might reveal an inconvenient plot point. They're as bad as Troi's telepathy!

 

[OneBuckFilms]

I stand corrected.

Still, we don't know how clear the sensor details are from the Enterprise's, or other ship's perspective.

Warp trails may be far easier to detect than ships in close orbit.

So the general scenario is STILL plausible and logical.

It's not really that plausible. Their sensors are good enough to transport somebody onto a ship that is light years away but not good enough to detect energy discharges? It's yet another inconsistency - the sensors are great when our heroes need them to be and rubbish when they might reveal an inconvenient plot point. They're as bad as Troi's telepathy!

Erm, what energy discharges?

 

[Nerys Myk]

If Scotty can use a 1980s computer to quickly recreate the formula for transparent aluminum he should be able to handle this transporter modification.

Scotty did something similar in "Spock Must Die".

 

[Nerys Myk]

I stand corrected.

Still, we don't know how clear the sensor details are from the Enterprise's, or other ship's perspective.

Warp trails may be far easier to detect than ships in close orbit.

So the general scenario is STILL plausible and logical.

It's not really that plausible. Their sensors are good enough to transport somebody onto a ship that is light years away but not good enough to detect energy discharges? It's yet another inconsistency - the sensors are great when our heroes need them to be and rubbish when they might reveal an inconvenient plot point. They're as bad as Troi's telepathy!

Welcome to the Trek franchise. Enjoy your stay.

 

[Pauln6]

a) We don't know for sure that computer programming would be enough, and it was the nature of the formula/program that led to the long distance transport.

b) Past Precedent: Assignment: Earth, Gary Seven got to Earth essentially via a long distance transporter beam. Additional: Scotty from 2387 had a lifetime to figure out the formula, even if he has never tried it before.

Spock doesn't have time nor is he shown doing anything other than uploading a computer program. My main issue is with energy consumption. I'm not a physicist but they often have to boost power or have insufficient power to transport people a few km. I'm guessing light years and through a warp field would take more power?

Gary Seven was using very advanced Tech, possibly temporal tech so isn't really a good comparator. Some races have proved able to transport huge distances but not the Federation and especially not with 23rd century trasporters. Even the distances quoted by Scotty were likely just a few light minutes away. In my view, the last thing transporters need to be is more powerful!

 

[OneBuckFilms]

I stand corrected.

Still, we don't know how clear the sensor details are from the Enterprise's, or other ship's perspective.

Warp trails may be far easier to detect than ships in close orbit.

So the general scenario is STILL plausible and logical.

It's not really that plausible. Their sensors are good enough to transport somebody onto a ship that is light years away but not good enough to detect energy discharges? It's yet another inconsistency - the sensors are great when our heroes need them to be and rubbish when they might reveal an inconvenient plot point. They're as bad as Troi's telepathy!

Okay, first:

- If you are talking about beaming Kirk and Spock to the Narada from Titan's orbit, then note that the Enterprise was not at warp at that time. Thus, there was nothing to affect sensor accuracy within the solar-system.
- When the ships are jumping out of warp, they are detected while the Enterprise was actually still at warp, and at a far greater distance than within the same solar system.

So, movement, possible interference/noise from warp travel itself, combined with distance, may have reduced sensor effectiveness.

Given the distance difference between a ship at warp heading for Vulcan (outside the Vulcan starsystem), and the distance from Titan to Earth (within the boundary of a solar system), it may not even use the same set or kind of sensors.

 

[Pauln6]

If Scotty can use a 1980s computer to quickly recreate the formula for transparent aluminum he should be able to handle this transporter modification.

Scotty did something similar in "Spock Must Die".

HA! But Scotty acknowledges that it will take them years to develop the tech even with the formula.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

a) We don't know for sure that computer programming would be enough, and it was the nature of the formula/program that led to the long distance transport.

b) Past Precedent: Assignment: Earth, Gary Seven got to Earth essentially via a long distance transporter beam. Additional: Scotty from 2387 had a lifetime to figure out the formula, even if he has never tried it before.

Spock doesn't have time nor is he shown doing anything other than uploading a computer program. My main issue is with energy consumption. I'm not a physicist but they often have to boost power or have insufficient power to transport people a few km. I'm guessing light years and through a warp field would take more power?

Gary Seven was using very advanced Tech, possibly temporal tech so isn't really a good comparator. Some races have proved able to transport huge distances but not the Federation and especially not with 23rd century trasporters. Even the distances quoted by Scotty were likely just a few light minutes away. In my view, the last thing transporters need to be is more powerful!

A shuttle with no engines would inherently have more power available, since the power source for the Engines could be completely dedicated.

There is nothing that tells me that Scotty, knowing it's possible, could not eventually figure out ultra-long-range Transport equasions.

Beyond storing and restoring a person's mass, we are really talking about information storage and integrity.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

If Scotty can use a 1980s computer to quickly recreate the formula for transparent aluminum he should be able to handle this transporter modification.

Scotty did something similar in "Spock Must Die".

HA! But Scotty acknowledges that it will take them years to develop the tech even with the formula.

Spock Must Die isn't canon anyway

 

[Pauln6]

A shuttle with no engines would inherently have more power available, since the power source for the Engines could be completely dedicated.

There is nothing that tells me that Scotty, knowing it's possible, could not eventually figure out ultra-long-range Transport equasions.

Beyond storing and restoring a person's mass, we are really talking about information storage and integrity.

I don't have a major issue with them tweaking tech for the plot if it's shown as an effort that isn't of general application like Scotty's buffer loop in Relics. However, casually making transporters so powerful drives me nuts. I guess it's because I play RPG. If my players were handed that Pandora's box they's be beaming enemy captains into space from light years away before their ships had even come out of warp to engage them. It's such a dreadful extension of what is meant to be a simple short range transport device!

Thinking about it, I'd have been happier if Scotty had used his engine smarts to soup up a shuttle to pursue the Enterprise and THEN they'd transported while both ships were at warp from a much closer range.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

A shuttle with no engines would inherently have more power available, since the power source for the Engines could be completely dedicated.

There is nothing that tells me that Scotty, knowing it's possible, could not eventually figure out ultra-long-range Transport equasions.

Beyond storing and restoring a person's mass, we are really talking about information storage and integrity.

I don't have a major issue with them tweaking tech for the plot if it's shown as an effort that isn't of general application like Scotty's buffer loop in Relics. However, casually making transporters so powerful drives me nuts. I guess it's because I play RPG. If my players were handed that Pandora's box they's be beaming enemy captains into space from light years away before their ships had even come out of warp to engage them. It's such a dreadful extension of what is meant to be a simple short range transport device!

It took an untried formula from over 100 years in the future to do this kind of transport.

The implication was that it was experimental, meaning it was not run-of-the-meal, and in all alikelihood would never be tried again after Kirk and Spock beam to the Narada.

Scotty's reaction, not believing Spock about the whole thing, then his wonderment at seeing the formula, implies that it is a risky thing to do.

What more do you need to establish difficulty without slowing down the movie?

 

[Nerys Myk]

If Scotty can use a 1980s computer to quickly recreate the formula for transparent aluminum he should be able to handle this transporter modification.

Scotty did something similar in "Spock Must Die".

HA! But Scotty acknowledges that it will take them years to develop the tech even with the formula.

Actually it Nichols who said "But it would take years just to figure out the dynamics of this matrix."

Though, I'm surprised Scotty doesn't know who invented tranparent aluminum. But he knows how to get the best out of 20th Century computer.

 

[Pauln6]

A shuttle with no engines would inherently have more power available, since the power source for the Engines could be completely dedicated.

There is nothing that tells me that Scotty, knowing it's possible, could not eventually figure out ultra-long-range Transport equasions.

Beyond storing and restoring a person's mass, we are really talking about information storage and integrity.

I don't have a major issue with them tweaking tech for the plot if it's shown as an effort that isn't of general application like Scotty's buffer loop in Relics. However, casually making transporters so powerful drives me nuts. I guess it's because I play RPG. If my players were handed that Pandora's box they's be beaming enemy captains into space from light years away before their ships had even come out of warp to engage them. It's such a dreadful extension of what is meant to be a simple short range transport device!

It took an untried formula from over 100 years in the future to do this kind of transport.

The implication was that it was experimental, meaning it was not run-of-the-meal, and in all alikelihood would never be tried again after Kirk and Spock beam to the Narada.

Scotty's reaction, not believing Spock about the whole thing, then his wonderment at seeing the formula, implies that it is a risky thing to do.

What more do you need to establish difficulty without slowing down the movie?

If I'm honest - less Scotty trapped in a brewery; more mad scientist blows up lab killing Keenser in the process.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

If Scotty can use a 1980s computer to quickly recreate the formula for transparent aluminum he should be able to handle this transporter modification.

Scotty did something similar in "Spock Must Die".

HA! But Scotty acknowledges that it will take them years to develop the tech even with the formula.

Actually it Nichols who said "But it would take years just to figure out the dynamics of this matrix."

Though, I'm surprised Scotty doesn't know who invented tranparent aluminum. But he knows how to get the best out of 20th Century computer.

Might be one of those things lost to history. WW III, Eugenics Wars and all that. Some historical information may have been lost.

 

[Pauln6]

It took an untried formula from over 100 years in the future to do this kind of transport.

The implication was that it was experimental, meaning it was not run-of-the-meal, and in all alikelihood would never be tried again after Kirk and Spock beam to the Narada.

Scotty's reaction, not believing Spock about the whole thing, then his wonderment at seeing the formula, implies that it is a risky thing to do.

What more do you need to establish difficulty without slowing down the movie?

Trouble is, Scotty now knows the formula and while transporting at warp will clearly never get past health and safety, transporting over light years to way stations or transport ships is clearly more viable. It radically changes the transporter dynamic of the Federation to something we never even saw in TNG.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

It took an untried formula from over 100 years in the future to do this kind of transport.

The implication was that it was experimental, meaning it was not run-of-the-meal, and in all alikelihood would never be tried again after Kirk and Spock beam to the Narada.

Scotty's reaction, not believing Spock about the whole thing, then his wonderment at seeing the formula, implies that it is a risky thing to do.

What more do you need to establish difficulty without slowing down the movie?

Trouble is, Scotty now knows the formula and while transporting at warp will clearly never get past health and safety, transporting over light years to way stations or transport ships is clearly more viable. It radically changes the transporter dynamic of the Federation to something we never even saw in TNG.

The repercussions, if any at all, are yet to be seen.

I suspect we'll never see nor hear about this trick again.