ENTERPRISE, and T & A.
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I've always approached the decon scene from the opposite perspective - that it's a sexual scene trying to be asexual. I thought the totally unrelated dialogue, given in this matter-of-fact manner while doing this seeming sexual thing, was hilarious. It was as if they were saying, we're grownups here and we've gotten past the "oooh, boobies!!!" stage. (When clearly the audience hadn't.) Everything having to do with the human body isn't sexual, and even when it is, so what? That juxtaposition cracked me up.
I thought the juxtaposition of sensual gel-rubbing and intimate touching, with an argument about ship's business, was very effective. And I would think the writers knew full well that viewers would be reacting in a big way to the glistening half-naked bodies, in contrast to Trip and T'Pol, who were ignoring them completely. Worked for me.
The decon scene gets far more bashing than it deserves. ENT bashers point to it as though the whole series was full of these scenes but it was only shown once.
I always wonder about the gel. There is no way to completely rub gel all over yourself and not miss a bit, your scalp for one is pretty hard to completely cover. I like to think the gel contains decontaminating microbes and that getting it on all your limbs and torso is enough because the microbes then travel and meet up with each other, eventually covering your entire body and decontaminating it.
I always wonder about the gel. There is no way to completely rub gel all over yourself and not miss a bit, your scalp for one is pretty hard to completely cover. I like to think the gel contains decontaminating microbes and that getting it on all your limbs and torso is enough because the microbes then travel and meet up with each other, eventually covering your entire body and decontaminating it.
I'm not an ENT basher, I liked the show in some ways, but I do feel the decon scene deserves all the ridicule it gets. The fact is that it is in the pilot episode, this is part of the first impression we get of this show and it is just plain bad. Broken Bow isn't a bad pilot episode for the most part, but I really wish that my first impression of this show hadn't included such a ham-fisted attempt at sexing things up.
First impressions have always made up a large percentage of our overall impression of a thing, so I understand and agree with the ridicule.
I actually do agree. I mean having sexuality on the show is one thing, having two people who are attracted ending up in bed together would work out as sexing it up and being emotional at the same time (character development) but the way ENT did it was just flesh for the sake of showing flesh and not real sexuality in terms of character or atmosphere.
Say, if Archer and Hernandez had ended up having sex it would've worked because of the atmosphere, the tone, the characters involved and still could be used as "sex sells" moment. But having a bunch of people who had just met sitting around half-naked rubbing gel on each other and not acting like it was arousing is just...false.
Say, if Archer and Hernandez had ended up having sex it would've worked because of the atmosphere, the tone, the characters involved and still could be used as "sex sells" moment. But having a bunch of people who had just met sitting around half-naked rubbing gel on each other and not acting like it was arousing is just...false.
I was looking up Jolene quotes about her character and came upon one that sums up how I feel:
Another example of Jolene biting the hand that feeds her. Perhaps that's one of the reasons she can't get a decent gig these days... Actually, she hasn't had a decent gig since Enterprise, to be fair.
But lets face it, the only reason anyone ever hires Jolene is the T&A factor, I mean, its not like she can actually act...
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OK Mach5, no one rips Jolene in front of me!! You should know better.
While Jolene may look somewhat like Angelina Jolie, she can't act like her. HOWEVER, I thought she was the perfect T'Pol. Her style of acting perfectly fit the role of an emotionally challenged Vulcan. I've seen the interview where she made that comment above and while it pissed me off when I first read it, after a while it made more sense to me. She picked up on many of the writing issues the show had and thought that they were making her drop her cloths to make up for bad writing. I personally don't think that was the case, as I thought the nudity was not over the top, was not gratuitous and it fit the story line; but who knows what was really going through their minds at the time. Jolene's problem is that she doesn't know how to phrase her thoughts in a more business like fashion and comes off being ungrateful, if not nasty in these interviews, particularly regarding Enterprise. That was then, I think she is a bit different now based on what (little) I've heard.
I think the point itrying to be made is that they weren't aroused. Humans (Trip and Archer in particular) on the show tended to resent Vulcans for standing in the way of Earth's progress and Vulcans (including T'Pol) see humans as overly emotional toddlers. Putting them in a situation where they have to be vulnearable to each other and make physical contact is more likely to lead to resentment than arousal. The show is honest to what happens in the real world when you have to deal with someone in very awkward circumstances (especially in a military/professional environment) even when said person might be very attractive in other circumstances. Add in the prior statements about the show trying to depict more "evolved" sensibilities, and the scene works.
I think she was hired, maybe I'm naive, because of her acting ability and her looks. I assume it's why everyone on Ent was hired; Ent was a good-acting cast and good-looking cast.
Biting the hand that feeds her -- why is raising her objections to T&A bad? Instead, she indicates it's more important to tell good stories. I mean, isn't that something we can all agree with? (Again, maybe I'm naive.)
I also think of all the actors on Ent, she's the one who improved the most over the course of the seasons. I mean, I think she went from good to very, very good. T'Pol was one of my favorite characters.
There's a difference between someone rubbing gel onto a child's body, for example, and someone rubbing gel into an adult body where the camera focuses on all the naughty bits (you know the ones), with a blue filter and soft music playing. The director/writer/producer knew they were teasing the audience; that was their purpose.
Don't take this the wrong way, I certainly mean no offense, but yes, that sounds pretty naive to me. The only place I saw Jolene before ENT was "Jason & the Argonauts" where she played Medea, and there was absolutely nothing about her performance that was above mediocre. In fact she was only memorable for her amazing looks and badly faked accent. But for some reason, I was delighted to hear that she got hired to play a Vulcan. She had that arrogant stone-cold demeanor that made her almost perfect for the part.
Sure, Its okay to tell good stories, but not at the expense of T&A!
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Yes, and I guess she got that boob job at age 17 to get noticed for her acting skillsShe's not happy with her "exposure" on Enterprise yet she releases all those revealing pictures?
She's not happy with her "exposure" on Enterprise yet she releases all those revealing pictures?
I don't think that's what she's saying. I think what she is saying is that T&A is okay, but not at the expense of a significant and interesting plot. No doubt, she made her money by being a model with a large helping of T&A included. But as an actress in a science fiction show where she portrayed a Vulcan, I think she expected her character's development and great story lines to come before pointless or frivolous T&A. And I agree. I could care less about T'Pol running around the ship in a tank top and short shorts and care much more about her decision to stay on board a ship of humans, growing along with them.
Mach 5, I didn't see Jason and the Argonauts. I didn't know any of the actors, other than Scott Bakula, before they joined Enterprise. Seems Enterprise was many of their "break out" roles. And I sincerely hope they do break out. I know overcoming the science fiction typecast is difficult.
But as commodore64 says, the scene was clearly filmed in an attempt to cause arousal in the audience. If the idea was that these two were revolted by one another then the camera would have focused on their faces and the looks of disgust in their eyes, instead we get shots of Trip sliding his finger under T'Pol's underwear. Add a blue light and erect nipples and what you get is an out of place very-soft-core porn scene.
"and God created Woman"
A Beautiful woman is God's greatest creation.
If you don't believe me stand in front of the Venus De Milo
or for a different type of Beauty. Stand in front of the Piata.
look at Mary. she is dressed as women of her era would be only her face and hands show. the Beauty of her face is almost eerie.
So, I am good with the T&A just don't care for the way it ws shown. Hated those Cat suits. Jolene could broadcast Sex almost at will. she didn't need to throw it in the face of the viewers.
I have seen Beautiful women from Japan through Asia, the Indian sub-Continent, Middle East, North Africa throughout Europe up to Sweden. A beauutiful woman is the same anywhere. Jolene is Beautiful so a little T&A is all right because there really wasn't all that much on enterprise.
A Beautiful woman is God's greatest creation.
If you don't believe me stand in front of the Venus De Milo
or for a different type of Beauty. Stand in front of the Piata.
look at Mary. she is dressed as women of her era would be only her face and hands show. the Beauty of her face is almost eerie.
So, I am good with the T&A just don't care for the way it ws shown. Hated those Cat suits. Jolene could broadcast Sex almost at will. she didn't need to throw it in the face of the viewers.
I have seen Beautiful women from Japan through Asia, the Indian sub-Continent, Middle East, North Africa throughout Europe up to Sweden. A beauutiful woman is the same anywhere. Jolene is Beautiful so a little T&A is all right because there really wasn't all that much on enterprise.
I don't necessarily agree with that. It was certainly no more very-soft-core porn or out of place than anything else we see on Network TV today. If you mean the story could have been told just as as effectively without the De-Con scene or with the scene filmed differently, then you you right. However, there was nothing wrong with the way it was done. I think it could have been equally effective "sexed up" or not. IMO "sexed up" is more interesting.
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I think that's the argument. I think TPTB for Ent thought it would bring in more people so used it too often sometimes in lieu of a really good story or some really good dialogue that helped develop characters.
I'm not sure the Decon scenes and others are softcore porn though. And I'm not sure I'm the most qualified person to determine what should make it on air. I guess my point is, if it's not really needed and it's kinda silly (detracting from the episode overall) -- why do it?
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