Engineering's curved hallways

[Robert Comsol]

I understand all that. Claustrophobia is true, but you have to wonder why they wouldn't, you know, make the windows BIGGER then!?

But there were bigger windows on the TOS Enterprise

• the pilot version had a huge bow rectangular window on Deck 2 (often mistaken for a viewscreen), which would have probably been visible behind Kirk in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (unfortunately Deck 2 was basically removed for the regular series and along with it the window)
• we do have four large and rectangular sky- or starlights on the upper side of the saucer hull
• we do have a dark room with a long horizontal and panoramic window in the engineering hull
• and last but not least we have the three circular bow windows of the saucer that are much bigger than the others

My only issue with the TMP Enterprise is that these bow windows were abolished but ST V "put these back" where these belonged, IMHO. At least one good thing about ST V and worthy of another look: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/ch10/tffhd1437.jpg

Bob

 

[JoeZhang]

Something I've always wondered about in regards to the enterprise's bridge - where's the shit house?

 

[BorgusFrat]

But there were bigger windows on the TOS Enterprise

• the pilot version had a huge bow rectangular window on Deck 2 (often mistaken for a viewscreen), which would have probably been visible behind Kirk in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (unfortunately Deck 2 was basically removed for the regular series and along with it the window)
• we do have four large and rectangular sky- or starlights on the upper side of the saucer hull
• we do have a dark room with a long horizontal and panoramic window in the engineering hull
• and last but not least we have the three circular bow windows of the saucer that are much bigger than the others

My only issue with the TMP Enterprise is that these bow windows were abolished but ST V "put these back" where these belonged, IMHO. At least one good thing about ST V and worthy of another look: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/ch10/tffhd1437.jpg

Bob

To each his own, eh?!?

• Your first example -- not sure which window you're referring to but if it's the one I think it is then there's nothing to say that was a window. More likely some form of sensor. At least, that's how historically most fans have referred to it.

• Upper primary hull?!?!!!! Same answer -- most fans and blueprinters have NEVER considered those to be "windows". If you really argue that they are, though, then IMHO you've got a much, MUCH tougher hill to climb than some of your other examples that you've made in this thread for visual cues and what they mean ... because on those four rectangular squares we can't see anything inside them! And THOSE are so big that, shouldn't we be able to see SOMEthing?!? Even with 1966 level technology?? Those are just sensors. Or transporter room beam-out locations ("energy transparent to hull", as its called). Or even some form of futuristic station-keeping thruster system that's actually MORE advanced than what we saw on the TMP Enterprise.

• Long dark panoramic window?? That's a reach, don't you think? And even if it IS a window, I wouldn't really call it overly panoramic. And still kind of a 20th-century-ish type of size, being unnecessarily undersized. But this would have to be your best point ... good stuff.

• Three bow circles? Once again, I've never read anybody seriously say that those are windows. I guess they could be, but most fan explanations I've ever seen consider those to be forward-sweeping sensors or backup deflectors in case of main dish failure.

My only issue with the TMP Enterprise is that these bow windows were abolished but ST V "put these back" where these belonged, IMHO. At least one good thing about ST V and worthy of another look: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/ch10/tffhd1437.jpg

WAIT!!!! You're claiming that those long, wide, rectangular windows on that screencap are on the FRONT of the ship?!?!? On the bow? Of the saucer rim? Where? I'm not being argumentative, but I don't see them anywhere! And I really can't stand that movie so I've only seen it once or twice. Of course, I've also just worked a long day and I'm more than a bit tired ... but where are they on the model??? If they're indeed really not there then that kind of makes my point: that things like the "windows" in that lounge with the sailing ship's wheel that you linked to are actually really viewscreens ... maybe viewscreens that are far, far, FAR more advanced, realistic, and crystal clear than anything available today. Which is part of my very point! You probably wouldn't even be able to TELL whether you were looking out of a "window" OR a viewscreen with the kind of technology available to Star Fleet and on display (pun intended ).

Again, I already believe they are all supposed to be windows. I was only trying to give jayrath a ray of hope for his theory about the deck layouts in the support hull.

Either way, like I said in another post, I like pie! And this just makes for more interpertations and an even more interesting (and tasty) pie!!!

Good talk, Russ

 

[BorgusFrat]

Something I've always wondered about in regards to the enterprise's bridge - where's the shit house?

Genetically-tweaked crews of starships can hold it longer

(Sounds like a joke but why wouldn't they make tiny improvements like these to deep space crews??)

 

[T'Bonz]

Something I've always wondered about in regards to the enterprise's bridge - where's the shit house?

In the future, elimination has been eliminated!

 

[Mario de Monti]

And I of course know that they're all supposed to be windows, or that was the intent. Originally I was just pointing out for jayrath, in his earlier post, another method by which he could possibly make his idea work (of decks aligned differently in the secondary hull). But not really even that way would it work, since we saw Matt's cross section drawing anyway!

Peace out, dudes.

Ok then. Just one last note on the size of the windows: While you´re right that the few we see from the inside (like in The Mark of Gideon) are rather small and could very well just be "portholes", the rectangular ones on the outside of the hull are about 2,5´ high and 6´ wide.

And now I´m done

 

[BorgusFrat]

Ok then. Just one last note on the size of the windows: While you´re right that the few we see from the inside (like in The Mark of Gideon) are rather small and could very well just be "portholes", the rectangular ones on the outside of the hull are about 2,5´ high and 6´ wide.

Hi Mario ... hmmm, I don't know. Where's the source for that figure?

Seriously, I'm just asking -- never read that before. If it's based on measurements off the model or something then I guess it depends on whether the "owners" of this thread are ruling out certain sources of evidence or not. Onscreen anyways, I thought the only times we saw any viewports or "windows" or portholes or whatever you want to call them was in "Mark of Gideon" and "Conscience of the King". Looking at screencaps of those they seem to be pretty consistent to me; both are up high relative to the particular deck the person is standing on, & both are basically the same size(s). In the hangar deck observation gallery scene in "Conscience' we even get to see not one but TWO of them, side by side. Or rather, let's call it: two in a row -- so we can assume safely that they're typical of the type, and that they make up the many sequential examples of these things that are placed all along the outside of the secondary hull. And they don't look anywhere close to 6 feet to my eye. I might grant you the 2.5 feet high (they look closer to 2 feet at most, especially given that they're so high up on the "walls" that you'd be running out of deck height quickly enough if they were really 2.5 feet -- not acounting for some of the sets having 11 foot high walls themselves, of course ), but 6 feet wide?

Looks more like a 1:1.8, or okay, maybe 1:2 proportions to me. So then, 2 feet high x 4 feet wide (long). But either way, I could certainly be misremembering my episodes -- someone else can help out if there were other "window" shots in episodes that I'm forgetting about (Please?).

But even so, that's still nowhere near a suitable size like those on the TMP refit Enterprise down in the Botanical Gardens. Now picture yourself, really close your eyes everybody, and imagine sitting a few feet back from an 8 foot high x 4 foot wide window, starting at deck level, and soaring up to near the bottom of the next level! Now THAT would be impressive -- especially if you were orbiting a planet. THAT'S where you'd get a massive amount of odd alien light flowing into the ship too, as it bounced off the local sun and lit up your gardens. Also, talk about insanely romantic to boot!

Still Mario, I don;t know: do you think that even a 2.5 foot x 6 foot "window" is a little "cheap" or chintzy, as they say, for a starship crew with such a need for their "psyches" to be protected and kept healthy? Just kind of seems like a big slit to me, sort of when you've had too much Saurian Brandy from a Dickel bottle and then the later the evening gets the more you've got little slits for an eye your own self

I say, open those eyes W - I - D - E, and let me see the stars while I serves my five years here on this tub that's no doubt being superseded by something better back home while we sail around and lose Spock's brain while we're not turning Kirk into a woman!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnd . . . SCENE!

 

[blssdwlf]

The only confirmed windows in TOS that I know of are from "The Conscience of the King" and "The Mark of Gideon". In TCOTK, the windows are approx 3' tall based on re-creating the interior as a virtual set. The windows don't match up to any on the filmed model although you could imagine them shuttered and thus not visible most of the time.

The TFF windows I'm a bit suspicious of due to their large size and lack of matching windows on the E-A hull. The way they are designed it doesn't look like they can be shuttered and hidden away which would require more creative thinking in how and where would they fit on the ship.

 

[Robert Comsol]

The only confirmed windows in TOS that I know of are from "The Conscience of the King" and "The Mark of Gideon". In TCOTK, the windows are approx 3' tall based on re-creating the interior as a virtual set. The windows don't match up to any on the filmed model although you could imagine them shuttered and thus not visible most of the time.

I'd like to add the (shuttered) windows in the Season One cabins of Kirk (E-"Deck 12" in "Mudd's Women" and the "Enemy Within", Mudd's cabin and McCoy's in "The Man Trap").
The original 1966 studio set plans for this set feature these windows and the writing on this plan says "WINDOWS" beyond a shred of doubt.

This clearly establishes that the creators / producers had exterior, physical windows in mind. If one has a problem with that travel back in time and tell them to drop the idea.

The TFF windows I'm a bit suspicious of due to their large size and lack of matching windows on the E-A hull. The way they are designed it doesn't look like they can be shuttered and hidden away which would require more creative thinking in how and where would they fit on the ship.

I'm very well aware that the windows seen in ST V TFF are not compatible with the exterior of the actual model (neither is the turbo shaft suggesting more than 30 decks...). I merely used this and the screencap as an example that from a dim-lit room inside you actually could have a spectacular view into space and stellar phenomena.

Besides, what are those lit structures on the movie Enterprise? Windows or instruments? I think this is a classic example of rationalization overdrive and I will not dare to pester Andrew Probert with such a question.

Bob

 

[Mario de Monti]

Hi Mario ... hmmm, I don't know. Where's the source for that figure?

Seriously, I'm just asking -- never read that before. If it's based on measurements off the model or something then I guess it depends on whether the "owners" of this thread are ruling out certain sources of evidence or not. Onscreen anyways, I thought the only times we saw any viewports or "windows" or portholes or whatever you want to call them was in "Mark of Gideon" and "Conscience of the King". Looking at screencaps of those they seem to be pretty consistent to me; both are up high relative to the particular deck the person is standing on, & both are basically the same size(s). In the hangar deck observation gallery scene in "Conscience' we even get to see not one but TWO of them, side by side. Or rather, let's call it: two in a row -- so we can assume safely that they're typical of the type, and that they make up the many sequential examples of these things that are placed all along the outside of the secondary hull. And they don't look anywhere close to 6 feet to my eye. I might grant you the 2.5 feet high (they look closer to 2 feet at most, especially given that they're so high up on the "walls" that you'd be running out of deck height quickly enough if they were really 2.5 feet -- not acounting for some of the sets having 11 foot high walls themselves, of course ), but 6 feet wide?

Yes, this size (2.5´ x 6´) comes from measuring the rectangles on the hull of the filming model, assuming the "real" ship is about 1080´long. As to why we don´t get to see them this big from the inside, blssdwlf just gave a possible (and rather simple) explanation in the above post #108.

But even so, that's still nowhere near a suitable size like those on the TMP refit Enterprise down in the Botanical Gardens. Now picture yourself, really close your eyes everybody, and imagine sitting a few feet back from an 8 foot high x 4 foot wide window, starting at deck level, and soaring up to near the bottom of the next level! Now THAT would be impressive -- especially if you were orbiting a planet. THAT'S where you'd get a massive amount of odd alien light flowing into the ship too, as it bounced off the local sun and lit up your gardens. Also, talk about insanely romantic to boot!

THAT is definitely something I´d love to have seen in one of the movies

Still Mario, I don;t know: do you think that even a 2.5 foot x 6 foot "window" is a little "cheap" or chintzy, as they say, for a starship crew with such a need for their "psyches" to be protected and kept healthy? Just kind of seems like a big slit to me, sort of when you've had too much Saurian Brandy from a Dickel bottle and then the later the evening gets the more you've got little slits for an eye your own self

No argument there. But the fact remains, that the windows just aren´t any bigger Maybe it´s due to the material used for them, that doesn´t allow for bigger windows since the overall integrity of the hull would be compromised otherwise. And something they found a solution for in the refit Enterprise´s bigger windows.

But enough about that now, windows are still not the topic of this thread

Mario

 

[Robert Comsol]

But enough about that now, windows are still not the topic of this thread

Hmm...as a matter of fact they are! Once the reader has overcome his or her aversion against cabins on (Engineering) Deck 12, he or her has to acknowledge that there are circular corridors outside the cabins in the engineering hull.

We did see a circular corridor outside of Kirk's (temporary) cabin on E-Deck 12 in "The Enemy Within" (where EvilKirk apparently can't make up his mind where to go) and in "The Man Trap" when the Salt Vampire (disguised as an African crew member) discovers McCoy's cabin (both with shuttered windows ).

Bob

 

[Mario de Monti]

Well if you put it that way I´ll rephrase: While not being the actual topic of this thread, windows are still connected to it

However, the way the discussion about the windows went, it didn´t really contribute to the thread anymore, IMHO.

Mario

 

[blssdwlf]

I merely used this and the screencap as an example that from a dim-lit room inside you actually could have a spectacular view into space and stellar phenomena.

Besides, what are those lit structures on the movie Enterprise? Windows or instruments? I think this is a classic example of rationalization overdrive and I will not dare to pester Andrew Probert with such a question.

Actually if you look at various close-up screen caps from the movies that some are utilized as windows (like the guy looking through the round porthole as the inspection vehicle docked) while some of the other windows like the oval/capsule shaped ones appear to have things that are behind them that divide the space like machinery. Personally it just seemed to me that the windows are used by both personnel and sensor gear as necessary.

 

[Robert Comsol]

I just posted my deck plan draft for Main Deck 7 (post # 280 with long comment) and noticed something that should be mentioned in the context of the original topic of this thread.

When you keep the 60° angles of the side corridors and mirror the port side engine room to starboard, the Season One / Season Two door vis-a-vis the sickbay set will be spot on match for the main entry door of the starboard engine room.

I'd like to believe that we saw that door in "The Doomsday Machine" when Commodore Decker knocked down the security crewman and dragged him into the starboard engine room.

Bob