Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)

[BK613]

The 1975 date is the second edition. The first edition was 500 sold (with permission) at a convention in 1974. The drawings were completed in 1973 and I am not aware of any changes. I doubt FJ was watching TAS as none of the oddball things from it are in any of his work. FJ's work is all TOS based.

That also might explain something that bothered me about the 1975 date: I bought McMasters Klingon D7 plans at Starcon '76* in Dallas Texas, which took place in March of 1976. If McMasters was one of the 500 lucky ones, he would have had nearly two years to produce the set, otherwise he would have less than a year, which seems less likely given the technology of the day.

*(only convention I attended as a teenager so I'm absolutely certain about the purchase date.)

 

[Maurice]

I realize this is days late, but... "warp drive 'n nacelles"? oh for fuck's sake...

Has anyone got an original copy of The Apple script we can refer to? It won't change Shatner's delivery, but would demonstrate authorial intent.

Here you go.

"The Apple"
Second revised final draft
July 12, 1967
Scene 84, page 34

KIRK​

Then use your imagination! Tie
every ounce of power the ship has
into the impulse engines… discard
the warp drive nacelles if you have to
and crack out of there with just
the main section… but get out!
​

 

[Mytran]

I realize this is days late, but... "warp drive 'n nacelles"? oh for fuck's sake...

Here you go.

"The Apple"
Second revised final draft
July 12, 1967
Scene 84, page 34

KIRK​

Then use your imagination! Tie
every ounce of power the ship has
into the impulse engines… discard
the warp drive nacelles if you have to
and crack out of there with just
the main section… but get out!​

Thanks @Maurice - although I must admit, I did enjoy repeat editing Shatner for that vid!
In any case, performing a saucer separation WOULD discard the nacelles, so independently jettison-able nacelles or not, it still works out

 

[Henoch]

My concept: Switched to Sinclair model. Created a WIP pressure hull scheme in the secondary hull loosely based on the bridge diagram. Tried to center up frames between windows. Moved engine room back forward to center the DTD over the big yellow spot on the hull bottom. Using a 33 foot pipe cathedral but I have room for more length. Laid out a hangar bay and shuttle storage (24 foot shuttle per Kirk dialog); I used my creative license to move the hangar external windows/ports up to the observation deck where they belong.

 

[Mytran]

That's a bold move! But you've made it line up surprisingly well

 

[yotsuya]

My concept: Switched to Sinclair model. Created a WIP pressure hull scheme in the secondary hull loosely based on the bridge diagram. Tried to center up frames between windows. Moved engine room back forward to center the DTD over the big yellow spot on the hull bottom. Using a 33 foot pipe cathedral but I have room for more length. Laid out a hangar bay and shuttle storage (24 foot shuttle per Kirk dialog); I used my creative license to move the hangar external windows/ports up to the observation deck where they belong.

I love it. I'd have to redo a few of those pressure areas to make mine fit. I'm also using the 22 foot shuttle to match the prop and Jefferies drawings. I have a long run of engineering machinery on the deck below engineering that would make that pressure division almost impossible. I especially like your hanger. It just feels right. Beautiful job. Keep up the fantastic work. I hadn't even paid attention to the pressure drawings until I ran across Shaw's work. I don't remember him carrying it over to the secondary hull. Great job.

 

[Henoch]

I hadn't even paid attention to the pressure drawings until I ran across Shaw's work. I don't remember him carrying it over to the secondary hull.

Thanks for the nice comments. Shaw did use a pressure cell arrangement in the secondary hull, but he choose poorly IMHO. He made the middle cell too small, and put his 54 foot pipes in it. I believe the both the pipes and the engine control room should be in the same pressure cell since there is a big hole (the screen) between the two areas. No sliding doors needed to seal it in an emergency, etc.

It also explains why Scotty had such a difficult time in cutting through into the engine room in the Naked Time; the pressure bulkheads and doors are like the hull made of some wacky metal like duranium which is highly resistant to phaser cutting. Scott just focused on the cutting through a 1/2 inch outer skin to get at the door mechanism, otherwise, he would have to cut through 1 inch of the door and making a man-size hole which would take even longer. At least, that's my take.

My main goal is to put the concept of curved halls in front of the engine room as seen on-screen. The corridor plus attached rooms will fit in the large forward pressure cell. The in-universe reason for the curved corridors: here's some sort of radioactive technobabble device behind the door at the end of the Jeffries Tube hall (makes deuterium or provides fusion power to the main deflector when main power is down, etc.)

As for the triple bulkhead in the rear, I think the extra protection is in case of a shuttlecraft accident either a crash landing or a shuttle fuel M/AM explosion. It also staggers the doors through the area; first set of big garage doors offset with smaller side doors offset again with a center door. I've already revised the observation deck and control booths to make them taller. I'm working on a Hangar/Engine Room deck plan, but alas, I'm slow.

 

[yotsuya]

One thing I have found in trying to insert the engine room set in the ship is that the season 1 and season 2/3 engine rooms are completely different sizes. The season 2/3 room seems to be a 20 foot cube while the season 1 engine room is 24 foot long and about 17 feet high and 18 feet wide (width is relative since the sent was never finished on the other side, but based on the screen wall it is about even on either side). To me this is irrefutable evidence that there are two engine rooms. One in the saucer and one in the engineering hull and two pipe structures.

 

[yotsuya]

And there was a list of all the episodes that featured the engine room. I can't remember where I saw it. Anyone have a list like that?

 

[Henoch]

And there was a list of all the episodes that featured the engine room. I can't remember where I saw it. Anyone have a list like that?

Good memory. Maybe these? http://www.trekplace.com/article07.html and http://trekplace.com/article14.html

Also, @Mytran did an analysis of the two engine rooms from seasons 1 and 2 in which he fit them together with the use of an foyer in front of the season 1 engine room back in post #91 ([URL="https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/engine-room-s-on-the-tos-enterprise-revisited.297971/page-5#post-12796261"]Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)[/URL]). But yes, there are probably two engine rooms; one in the saucer and one in the secondary hull. I think the saucer engine room is slightly off-set from the ship centerline on the port side. I don't think we need more than two, IMHO.

 

[yotsuya]

Good memory. Maybe these? http://www.trekplace.com/article07.html and http://trekplace.com/article14.html

Also, @Mytran did an analysis of the two engine rooms from seasons 1 and 2 in which he fit them together with the use of an foyer in front of the season 1 engine room back in post #91 (Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)). But yes, there are probably two engine rooms; one in the saucer and one in the secondary hull. I think the saucer engine room is slightly off-set from the ship centerline on the port side. I don't think we need more than two, IMHO.

Ah, that was the one. Article 14. Thanks,

And those big blocky things have been on my mind. I've been trying to figure out what they are and how they function and I've come up with an idea that satisfies my designs goals. I've decided they are auxiallary power units. They magnetize to the deck so they don't shit. Scotty uses them when a research experiment or some other energy need exceeds the ship's normal capacity for an extended time or when something need uninterrupted power. Basically giant batteries. Since we never see the 4th wall, I'm going to put a door there close to the corner just big enough to fit one and put a storage room beyond. Since I'm doing 2 engine rooms, it will repeat in both (in the saucer the room has more flexibility because there is no upper level monitoring room).

 

[Henoch]

The items have been previously called "transformers", but I think batteries or high power capacitors are just as good description. I think wireless power transmission is used more than we give credit. The x-big engine room wall port was once set up to power the M5 computer. In the CAGE, they wirelessly transmitted the ship's power to the giant field gun (laser/phaser) to blast the rock outcropping. The "batteries" have similar ports on each unit to line up together and to line up with the wall ports, so, they are either charged or discharged wirelessly, too. The wall ports started to disappear during season 2 and were gone in season 3. Maybe they got banged up during set change outs?

 

[Ronald Held]

WOT, but was wireless charging thought of?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, at least wireless power transfer clearly was, in "The Cage" and "The Ultimate Computer," as cited.

 

[TIN_MAN]

WOT, but was wireless charging thought of?

As for real world precedents influencing production, go look up Nikola Tesla on wireless transmission of power for starters, and then T. Henry Moray to see an inspiration for Dilithium crystals.

 

[MAGolding]

WOT, but was wireless charging thought of?

I can remember many science fiction stories featuring wireless transmission of power, sometimes over interstellar distances, before TOS.

 

[GNDN18]

I can remember many science fiction stories featuring wireless transmission of power, sometimes over interstellar distances, before TOS.

You mean phone chargers led to the destruction of the mighty Krell?

The big machine... cubic miles of Klystron relays… enough power for a whole population of creative geniuses… operated by remote control. Morbius, operated by the electromagnetic impulses… of individual Krell brains.

My poor Krell, indeed.

 

[Mytran]

The items have been previously called "transformers", but I think batteries or high power capacitors are just as good description. I think wireless power transmission is used more than we give credit. The x-big engine room wall port was once set up to power the M5 computer. In the CAGE, they wirelessly transmitted the ship's power to the giant field gun (laser/phaser) to blast the rock outcropping. The "batteries" have similar ports on each unit to line up together and to line up with the wall ports, so, they are either charged or discharged wirelessly, too. The wall ports started to disappear during season 2 and were gone in season 3. Maybe they got banged up during set change outs?

I hadn't noticed those before, thanks!

As for real world precedents influencing production, go look up Nikola Tesla on wireless transmission of power for starters, and then T. Henry Moray to see an inspiration for Dilithium crystals.

I'm familiar with Tesla's experiments, but had not heard of Moray; a fascinating character...

 

[blssdwlf]

The items have been previously called "transformers", but I think batteries or high power capacitors are just as good description. I think wireless power transmission is used more than we give credit. The x-big engine room wall port was once set up to power the M5 computer. In the CAGE, they wirelessly transmitted the ship's power to the giant field gun (laser/phaser) to blast the rock outcropping. The "batteries" have similar ports on each unit to line up together and to line up with the wall ports, so, they are either charged or discharged wirelessly, too. The wall ports started to disappear during season 2 and were gone in season 3. Maybe they got banged up during set change outs?

That's an interesting observation. The "ports" seem to move around and are gone by S3 on the walls although the large banks still retain them as late as "Tholian Web" and "DOTD".

 

[yotsuya]

And as that Article 14 points out, those big things are constantly being moved around so it does make sense that they are not fixed. And they can't go through the main entrance so they would need some sort of storage room. And yes, between The Cage and The Ultimate Computer, we know they can transmit power without the need for direct connection.