Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)
- Thread starter Henoch
- Start date
So (just to confirm the above) based on the briefing room plans and some pixel-level measurements, here's what I get!...
*Corridor width: 8'
*Sliding door alcove: 2'4"
*Wall width (min, w/o door alcove): 4"
*Radial distance, outer corridor wall: 51'
*Radial distance, inner corridor wall: 43'
*Briefing room depth: 20' (to outer wall edge)
*Ceiling beam width: 1'
*Ceiling height: 10'
*Door frame height: 7'
*Door opening height: 6'6"
*Door width (double): 4'
*Door width (single): 3'
*Door width (turbolift): 3'6"
...Plus, using this as a baseline and taking pixel measurements of some other set drawings (and photos):
*S1 engine room length: 23'6" — plus 16' for pipe cathedral (real) and 6' for entry alcove
*S1 engine room width: 19'
*S1 engine room height: 16'
*S2 engine room length: 20' — plus 16' pipe cathedral (real), 10' foyer, and 7'6" corridor alcove
*S2 engine room width: 27'6" (inc. 5' upper walkway)
*S2 engine room height: 20'
*Officers' cabin radial depth (avg: slightly skewed!): 15'9" from corridor (=inc. door alcove)
*Sickbay radial depth: ~25' in from corridor (=inc. door alcove) (approx. from set: inner wall never seen)
*Transporter room length: (to back of platform): 32' (from curved corridor), 30' (along straight corridor)
*Transporter room width: 18'3" (to side of platform) (=inc. door alcove)
*Bridge radius (lower level): 10' (McMaster prints) 9' (Jefferies plans)
*Bridge radius (upper level, to back wall): 14'6" (both)
*Bridge radius (upper level, to back edge of overhang): 16'6" (both)
*Bridge radius (to centerpoint of turbolift): 21' (McMaster) 20'6" (Jefferies)
*Turbolift car (interior diameter): 7'
Some of those may be off by an inch or three one way or another, but I hope it's handy info to work with for anyone doing any version of ship interiors!...
Edited: with some adjustments and corrections in bold
*Corridor width: 8'
*Sliding door alcove: 2'4"
*Wall width (min, w/o door alcove): 4"
*Radial distance, outer corridor wall: 51'
*Radial distance, inner corridor wall: 43'
*Briefing room depth: 20' (to outer wall edge)
*Ceiling beam width: 1'
*Ceiling height: 10'
*Door frame height: 7'
*Door opening height: 6'6"
*Door width (double): 4'
*Door width (single): 3'
*Door width (turbolift): 3'6"
...Plus, using this as a baseline and taking pixel measurements of some other set drawings (and photos):
*S1 engine room length: 23'6" — plus 16' for pipe cathedral (real) and 6' for entry alcove
*S1 engine room width: 19'
*S1 engine room height: 16'
*S2 engine room length: 20' — plus 16' pipe cathedral (real), 10' foyer, and 7'6" corridor alcove
*S2 engine room width: 27'6" (inc. 5' upper walkway)
*S2 engine room height: 20'
*Officers' cabin radial depth (avg: slightly skewed!): 15'9" from corridor (=inc. door alcove)
*Sickbay radial depth: ~25' in from corridor (=inc. door alcove) (approx. from set: inner wall never seen)
*Transporter room length: (to back of platform): 32' (from curved corridor), 30' (along straight corridor)
*Transporter room width: 18'3" (to side of platform) (=inc. door alcove)
*Bridge radius (lower level): 10' (McMaster prints) 9' (Jefferies plans)
*Bridge radius (upper level, to back wall): 14'6" (both)
*Bridge radius (upper level, to back edge of overhang): 16'6" (both)
*Bridge radius (to centerpoint of turbolift): 21' (McMaster) 20'6" (Jefferies)
*Turbolift car (interior diameter): 7'
Some of those may be off by an inch or three one way or another, but I hope it's handy info to work with for anyone doing any version of ship interiors!...
Edited: with some adjustments and corrections in bold
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I will be using the data. Thanks, Lawman. I'm amazed on well things fit into the 947' hull. I'm even tripping over areas that resemble the WNMHGB sets, too, especially areas for the long straight corridor with lighting to one side and on the other side, a turbolift and transporter room. I'm starting to use a 57' full pipe length, but even a 90' fits, but I get more room for hangar support with the 57' length. I'm designing a final S3 engine room, but any S1 through S3 fits the same. For S1, the need for an outer foyer connection is needed per Mytran's design suggestion. I'm just kinda slow with the concept art; it's not my forte and I have a lousy drawing package.
It's been a while since I took a ruler to the blueprints but these all look pretty good to me
The only thing I'll add is that door widths on the studio set came in three sizes:
4' double doors (such as the Briefing Room or main Sickbay)
3' single doors (such as Kirk's cabin or S1 Engine Room)
3'6" double doors (for all red turbolift doors)
There was poster here last year doing TOS deck plans using MS Paint, so rest assured you're not the only one!
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-enterprise-2d-deck-plans.288640/
As for the 57' length pipes I'll just say that the tapering effect of the horizontal beams would be much less severe if that was the case.
However, since you're not taking a slavishly literal approach to the episode visuals, this is a good compromise
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It's been a while since I took a ruler to the blueprints but these all look pretty good to me
The only thing I'll add is that door widths on the studio set came in three sizes:
4' double doors (such as the Briefing Room or main Sickbay)
3' single doors (such as Kirk's cabin or S1 Engine Room)
3'6" double doors (for all red turbolift doors)
@Mytran - what measurement do you get for the hangar bay doors (the ones with the black strips on the door frame)?
If you mean this one
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x10hd/journeytobabelhd0057.jpg
then I'd suggest looking back at The Naked Time, since it appears to be the same set piece
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x04hd/thenakedtimehd0495.jpg
Here we can see the entire door and its dimensions are approx 6'6" by 4'
This means that the door is actually slightly wider than the turbolift doorframe behind it! Indeed, you can see the bottom of the turbolift door frame peeking out below the blue door (bottom right of pic). As a result, the pocket doors are not opened as wide as in the JTB pic
As a final check between the two set pieces, we can count the white spots!
And yes, they match
No need to appologize. This is great quantitative evidence.
Now, surely that would fit into Deck 7 (saucer) and the impulse deck.
So to clarify from what I have read...
The FP structure as built is claimed to be 15 feet long.
As it appears, or is supposed to appear, it is either 57 or 90 feet long
I like the term FP structure. Maybe this could get use in-universe, just as Jefferies tube was once an offscreen term. Maybe we can say it is a (matter/anti-matter) Forced Power Structure?
There's a trick you can do with a forced perspective set which allows it to be filmed from multiple angles and look more or less correct, but no one seems to do it. Basically you lock the ends of the elements in the foreground to pivot points and then slide the back ends left and right until the thing looks right to the camera. It requires more planning and more setup time, obviously.Oh well, if you're going to try and make things EASY...
I'm not sure his scale is quite right. Using the corridor at the bottom of the picture (which is known to be 8' wide) the FP length clocks in at 57' (approximately). If Shaw's scale bar up the side were true, the corridors would be over 13 feet wide!
It is interesting how the expanded FP length get shorter the closer you get the camera to it (of course, the fakery of the optical illusion also gets also more and more obvious). I think the camera viewpoint was originally intended to be further away, as per it's first filmed appearance in The Naked Time http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd455.jpg
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15' from the grill to the back of the unit, plus 2' extra before the flat at the very back.
As for the "true" length, given how narrow the furthest ends of the horizontal beams are built; 90' is far more likely IMO.
A 60' unit would have had much less tapering in that regard.
That's a similar technique to what they did in the Lord Of The Rings films, in order to create the illusion of hobbits and humans in the same shots
I believe it's pronounced "children"Didn't they use hobbits in the far backgrounds in the TMP FP engine room scenes, too?
<sigh> Am I going back to 90 feet, again?
I'm going to focus on the front corridors for a while and ponder. 
It's amazing on how many child actors they used in the "Lord of the Rings" to stand in for hobbits, so, maybe it's really pronounced "hobbits".I believe it's pronounced "children"
If the First Federation joined Starfleet, then they could be from Balok's race. Hmm.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1648/2486/1600/Balok 01.0.jpg
It really depends on how determined you are to precisely match the episode visuals.<sigh> Am I going back to 90 feet, again?
60' long would still be a large piece of machinery and might be a better fit for all those times when the FP would shown at an incorrect angle, spoiling the illusion.
I've never had a problem assuming the FP cathedral is, in fact, short. Leaves more room on the ship for other interesting things... and it's really the only way any version of the Engine Room can fit in the saucer section near the impulse engines.
(So far as I can determine from the measurements, the S2 room is a better fit for that... given the constraints imposed by the deck 7 undercut, the s1 room would simply be too large.)
On which note, in regard to part of my post above...
*S2 engine room length: 20' — plus 16' pipe cathedral (real), 10' foyer, and 7'6" corridor alcove
...can anyone confirm whether or not that outer alcove (with the triangular stairwell access), was ever definitively shown as attached to the Engine Room set? Or was it only seem from the other side, as part of a generic corridor?
Also, does anyone have dimensions and/or positioning for the EMM room? I can't find it on any set plans, and its treatment in any of the various blueprints out there can best be described as "speculative"...
(So far as I can determine from the measurements, the S2 room is a better fit for that... given the constraints imposed by the deck 7 undercut, the s1 room would simply be too large.)
On which note, in regard to part of my post above...
*S2 engine room length: 20' — plus 16' pipe cathedral (real), 10' foyer, and 7'6" corridor alcove
...can anyone confirm whether or not that outer alcove (with the triangular stairwell access), was ever definitively shown as attached to the Engine Room set? Or was it only seem from the other side, as part of a generic corridor?
Also, does anyone have dimensions and/or positioning for the EMM room? I can't find it on any set plans, and its treatment in any of the various blueprints out there can best be described as "speculative"...
This one shows the corridor outside and the Jefferies Tube opposite http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x03hd/thechangelinghd1344.jpg
This shot has the edge of the triangular ladder alcove http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x08hd/imuddhd0098.jpg
But defnitive proof of the full circular corridor leading directly into the Engine Room can always be found in the Ultimate Computer! http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=54&page=5
This shot has the edge of the triangular ladder alcove http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x08hd/imuddhd0098.jpg
But defnitive proof of the full circular corridor leading directly into the Engine Room can always be found in the Ultimate Computer! http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=54&page=5
That's a great one for the ladder!
It's amazing on how many child actors they used in the "Lord of the Rings" to stand in for hobbits, so, maybe it's really pronounced "hobbits".
You mean none? They used several little people actors from India, wearing full head masks. The extended BTS on the extended edition DVDs interviews most of them. They were all a good decade (minimum) older than the actors they were doubling, save for John Rhys Davies.
A good question, because the FP units are not exact matches for one another in the plans. The S1 set plan has so many little anomalies and was such a work in progress that I'd be tempted to use the S2 plans and just trace the position of the pipes from the S1 equivalent.
Just out of curiosity, I sketched out the "full" version of the FP unit.
Because the pipes are evenly spaced on the FP unit (such as seen in Ultimate Computer) when expanded to full length it means they are unevenly spaced!
Having the fully extended pipes means that I can resize them to other viewing scenarios. For example, this scene in Space Seed reveals 3½ out of the 5 pipes from a certain angle. Comparing the FP unit to the full length one gives a supposed length of 25 feet from the grill.
Maybe the difference can be chalked up to visual distortions from the high energy output?
Finally, here is an extrapolation from S2's Ultimate Computer where all 5 tubes are viewed in one go. The result is a length of approx 20' from the grill:
These shots bust the FP model so much that I am not surprised that Blssdwlf just went with the angled unit in the end!
