Endgame
- Thread starter JarodRussell
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I meant a bang in terms of he thought it was great, his character had a bit more to do than usual, and some of us (me anyway) were relrly shocked and thought it was awful!
I'm not sure how I'd feel about Seven if this hadn't happened
. My feelings about her are so mixed anyway - I hated her as 'the woman in the catsuit' and the way the series (and Janeway's character) became so Seven-centric, but Jeri's acting amongst other things won me over so I don't mind her too much. In fanfic I don't like her with Chak, although I can handle Teya's, but I don't like her being vomited all over or whatever either. A bit of balance would be good.Temporal Investigations, and the 29th Century "Timecops", are the worst ideas ever to come into Star Trek.
Talk about a total ideas killer.
And all so that the episode in which they were invented had a tidy get-out-of-jail-free clause.
Not worth it: The creator(s) ended up spoiling every time travel story in Star Trek ever written / ever to be written, just because we now have to consider what these guys would do.
Bad form.
Talk about a total ideas killer.
And all so that the episode in which they were invented had a tidy get-out-of-jail-free clause.
Not worth it: The creator(s) ended up spoiling every time travel story in Star Trek ever written / ever to be written, just because we now have to consider what these guys would do.
Bad form.
^Very good point
But they also said that Timepigs could be wrong, commanding all with bad science, and that there were multiple time tracks some with and some without a 29th century police precinct from which temporal law is mandated.
I just wanted more Ducane. He was so awesome on the Shield.
I just wanted more Ducane. He was so awesome on the Shield.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they created them to explain away a few of the continuity flaws within the series itself. I don't think they even considered how it affected other time travel eps.
While I do have admiration for B&B, I can admit they weren't what I'd call forward thinkers.
A lack of Forward thinking allows Brannon to produce a show called Fast Forward?
The second episode of which was less terrible, and if each episode is less terrible than the last, maybe just maybe one day it will be adequate.
The second episode of which was less terrible, and if each episode is less terrible than the last, maybe just maybe one day it will be adequate.
This finale episodes are on Virgin 1 this week so it refreshes the memory.
The thing is with time travel and altering any point in time is that memories have altered also. So, no matter what Janeway did, providing it were a success, no one would remember or even have any inkling anything happened in the first place.
As for the Borg, well I'm sure that the writers would always find a way of bringing them back. The borg know about time travel (and not worried about any laws that may govern it!) or they could have a small preservation cell hidden somewhere in the vast galaxies.
except for other time travelers or people who are being temporally shielded by tech of semi natural phenononem like the Guardian... If there is a federation base sitting there inviolable to some mad womens meddling, they're going on an away mission to kill whatever has the presumption to turnthe universe on it';s ear for no good reaosn just like Kirk went back to kill Edith Keeler.
Everyone travelling back in time will arrive in new foreign histories even as their own presents are destroyed since the act of travelling through/outside of time is a prophylactic to the annoying changes temporal edition can have on the mind, physicality, geography and soul.
Miral tested the device before she gave it to Janeway. Where do you think she went if not to see her parents together and happy that she wouldn't have almost tripped over Admiral Janeway during her trial-run that Miral returned to a slightly different future from the one which ordered her to procure the device or nothing had changed because they were mutually exclusive timelines, similar to mirror universe.
Admiral Janeway's memories of the past were not changing as she changed the past. The two pasts seem to be disconnected.
"Meh".
Everyone travelling back in time will arrive in new foreign histories even as their own presents are destroyed since the act of travelling through/outside of time is a prophylactic to the annoying changes temporal edition can have on the mind, physicality, geography and soul.
Miral tested the device before she gave it to Janeway. Where do you think she went if not to see her parents together and happy that she wouldn't have almost tripped over Admiral Janeway during her trial-run that Miral returned to a slightly different future from the one which ordered her to procure the device or nothing had changed because they were mutually exclusive timelines, similar to mirror universe.
Admiral Janeway's memories of the past were not changing as she changed the past. The two pasts seem to be disconnected.
"Meh".
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
ULTIMATE QUESTION:
Why did the sphere at the end open up and take Voyager into it's internal area?? and after doing so why did they not do anything??
It makes no sense AT ALL!
Why did the sphere at the end open up and take Voyager into it's internal area?? and after doing so why did they not do anything??
It makes no sense AT ALL!
The important thing isn't that it made sense. The important thing was the kewl explosion and special effects as Voyager blew it's way out of the sphere.
Priorities people!
One thing is sure, it is one hell of a way to end a series, confusion rules supreme and people will discuss it forever.
I assumed that Tuvok broke the Borg's prefixcodes and they'd made that Sphere Voyager's b'tch.
I mean if Admiral Janeway was going to bring anything back with her, a key generator/password almanac (Back to the Future II anyone?) to back door into the Borgs own control systems would have been perfect, which is something that Seven should have been able to do "once" during her "first" reencounter with the Borg after her emancipation form the collective... I mean that is how Jean-Luc fucked them in the Best of Both Worlds II.
I mean if Admiral Janeway was going to bring anything back with her, a key generator/password almanac (Back to the Future II anyone?) to back door into the Borgs own control systems would have been perfect, which is something that Seven should have been able to do "once" during her "first" reencounter with the Borg after her emancipation form the collective... I mean that is how Jean-Luc fucked them in the Best of Both Worlds II.
Because the Queen was dead and couldn't give the root command to assimilate.
The borg back up personalities. Seven claimed that a younger version of herself still spoke in the collective while harry was once trying to get in her pants. She might have needed a new body, but she wasn't that dead. She has spare bodies all over the place that can be easily assembled.
However, we aren't aware if the Queen can still co-ordinate the Borg while she has no body. I mean dead as in the human understanding of the physical term. I forgot many things are taken literally around here.
Btw, Seven said he memories remain within the collective like an echo of her presence there. I'm not sure for drones if that equals personality.
I always sort of though the POINT was that Janeway was selfish here. She's spent the last 7 series constantly putting the Prime Directive first (sometimes in a very whiny way and sometimes so needlessly that even Tuvok pints out that she's being stupid but I digress) and then this is so important to her that she is willing to be selfish. Even Captain Janeway is suprised and a little shocked that her future counterpart could do something that she herself wants to be able to reject utterly as being 'against Starfleet principles.' I always saw it as the counterpart to the one where Harry and Chakotay come back in time to stop everyone dying.
The real question is what is so important to her that she is willing to shelve her principles? What would make her so desperate? And Janeway hates time paradoxs and the like, for her to willingly embroil herself in one is a big deal. Admiral Janeway offers three options in the scene in the corridor Seven's death, Chakotay's marriage to Seven (which obviously only happened because the necessities of maintaining a command structure made Janeway unavailable J/C forever!) and the length of time it will take her to get home if they don't and the inherent problems that will cause. And obviously Janeway's entire character is based around her obsession with bringing her crew home. She might see 26 years as her wasting their lives and being willing to take a great deal of risk to avoid that.
The real question is what is so important to her that she is willing to shelve her principles? What would make her so desperate? And Janeway hates time paradoxs and the like, for her to willingly embroil herself in one is a big deal. Admiral Janeway offers three options in the scene in the corridor Seven's death, Chakotay's marriage to Seven (which obviously only happened because the necessities of maintaining a command structure made Janeway unavailable J/C forever!) and the length of time it will take her to get home if they don't and the inherent problems that will cause. And obviously Janeway's entire character is based around her obsession with bringing her crew home. She might see 26 years as her wasting their lives and being willing to take a great deal of risk to avoid that.
I've heard RB say more than once that he likes any episode where he gets to kiss a pretty girl--so no wonder he thought Endgame was great! Jeri would certainly qualify as a pretty girl!
BINGO!!!
Janeway up holds her morals for the entire trip home and what is her reward? She has no future.
Seven of Nine, the closest thing to what she'll have as a daughter. Janeway= Ripley/Seven= Newt. Dead.
Mark has left her and married another woman.
Chakotay has given up waiting because he know he isn't getting any younger. Seven is his mid-life crisis calling. Not only looses his heart but looses him physically too.
So Janeway comes home to a great promotion..........and an empty home and no children, not even her dog.
So she grows older and bitter, wishing if she could do it all over again...she'd do what Kes tried.
She'd stop it all, to save her soul, to save her family. Too not die alone.Anybody that's ever lost a loved one, I mean someone you really loved. Wouldn't you move Heaven & Earth to get them back?
Would the future matter to you as long as that person was back with you?
I think most of us would.
If you know that feeling, I think then "Endgame" comes off better and the reunion with the families might not matter as much..........but that's just me.
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