Endgame

[JarodRussell]

I'm sure this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find anything.

Old Janeway's selfish time travel, just because she had been too stupid... would the Temporal Integrity Commission introduced in the show really just sit back and let that happen? What she did fucks up the development of the entire galaxy for 25 years. All the first contacts Voyager would have made are now not getting made, and the Borg are simply wiped out.

If not the guys from the 29th century, surely the Temporal Investigators from DS9 would kick her ass, and certainly wouldn't let her get promoted to Admiral, wouldn't they?

 

[Thestral]

I'm sure this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find anything.

Old Janeway's selfish time travel, just because she had been too stupid... would the Temporal Integrity Commission introduced in the show really just sit back and let that happen? What she did fucks up the development of the entire galaxy for 25 years. All the first contacts Voyager would have made are now not getting made, and the Borg are simply wiped out.

If not the guys from the 29th century, surely the Temporal Investigators from DS9 would kick her ass, and certainly wouldn't let her get promoted to Admiral, wouldn't they?

Why yes, you are correct sir. Welll, except for the Borg being simply wiped out, that's not entirely clear. Overall though, yes. Somewhat... dissapointing isn't it?

 

[Broccoli]

It was Future-Janeway that messed with "the past". Then-Janeway didn't do anything to the timeline from her perspective. The temporal agents from DS9 would have no quarrel with her.

Now, the temporal agents from the 29th Century could have shown up and tried to stop Future-Janeway, but they did not for some reason. Probably the same reason they didn't show up and stop Nero.

 

[Thestral]

Now, the temporal agents from the 29th Century could have shown up and tried to stop Future-Janeway, but they did not for some reason. Probably the same reason they didn't show up and stop Nero.

Actually, that's a good point, if in a roundabout way. It's entirely plausible (based on ST09) that the events of Endgame in fact depict the creation of another timeline, another universe, which Admiral Janeway creates and then dies in. So everything that she tried to stop happening, still happened, but in another universe.

 

[nx1701g]

Maybe the TimeCops ignored it because it made the Federation stronger? Plus, as said above, the Borg were believed to be destroyed (or at least significantly damaged).

For all we know the only reason that the TimeCops were ordered to save Voyager from destruction by Braxton was because of this very reason.

 

[Pegaritaville]

I've always liked the theory that Janeway's actions in "Endgame" is what lead to the creation of the Temporal Integety Commission. It'd explain why the temporal cops didn't go after Janeway (can't erase the reason for your existence) in "Endgame", and in a roundabout way, would explain why VOY's crew was allowed to dick with the timeline before that.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Can't we just go with Voyager sucked and thus this was the perfect way to end the show? Really, I find it makes all discussions of Voyager a lot easier.

 

[Tallis Rhul]

That really depends on how keen you are to start a pointless flame war, being as this is a Voyager forum which Voyager fans are going to be reading in all likelihood...

As for the matter at hand, my personal take would be that the Temporal Investigations Committee didn't act because they would rather that the timeline was messed up than the Borg defeated the Federation. I know there's no direct link between Voyager being assimilated and the Federation being wiped out, but maybe they thought it'd be for the best.

Maybe Section 31 got involved? There's a fun idea.

 

[JarodRussell]

But the Federation was shown to be perfectly fine in all the future scenes. So had they stopped old Janeway's time travel, nothing bad would have happened.

 

[AuntKate]

Can't we just go with Voyager sucked and thus this was the perfect way to end the show? Really, I find it makes all discussions of Voyager a lot easier.

"Endgame" has its flaws, but it is definitely not the worst finale of a Star Trek series. And no, we can't go with Voyager sucking--not in this forum, anyway.

 

[Brit]

What we were shown of the Federation in Endgame may have seemed all right but that doesn't mean it was ok. In fact because of their absence, you can make the assumption that the Temporal Investigation Guys didn't exist in her time line at all, and be as right as anyone else.

The case can be made depending on the point of view, that Admiral Janeway "saved" millions upon millions of lives by doing what she did. The people that don't like Kathryn Janeway usually make this argument, the people that like Janeway counter it. This effort usually solves nothing because we know next to nothing about the Admiral's time line.

We know Tuvok is insane, we know Chakotay is dead. Did we see Picard, did we see anyone from Deep Space Nine? In fact the only people we do see are Janeway, Barclay, the Doctor, Tom and B'Elanna Paris, Miral Paris, Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman's daughter.

The only planet you really see is Earth, You only assume the Federation is ok you don't know that for a fact.

In this case you can only go back to the Trek bibles and go with the fact that all five of the captains we saw were very capable, good captains. They deserved their captaincy and were well thought of by their superiors. That is the base of all the series. And if you don't go with the Trek Bible as canon there is this fact, upon her return to the Delta Quadrant Kathryn Janeway was given a promotion to the rank of Vice Admiral and had the authority to give Jean-Luc Picard orders to go to Romulus.

It's ok to dislike any particular character, but keep it in mind that that is a personal dislike and not shared by everyone.

Brit

 

[kimc]

I've always liked the theory that Janeway's actions in "Endgame" is what lead to the creation of the Temporal Integety Commission. It'd explain why the temporal cops didn't go after Janeway (can't erase the reason for your existence) in "Endgame", and in a roundabout way, would explain why VOY's crew was allowed to dick with the timeline before that.

As a theory it works. As a finale "Endgame" doesn't though.

 

[kimc]

Can't we just go with Voyager sucked and thus this was the perfect way to end the show? Really, I find it makes all discussions of Voyager a lot easier.

That's rule #1 in the "Lazy Person's Guide to Debating". It's also trolling and is against the rules. Do it again and you get a warning.

 

[Polgara]

I would have to agree that the 29th century guys wanted her to chnage things and that's why they didn't interfere.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It began with allowing the Doctor to keep the mobile emitter, well it began with not reversing Chronowerx's underpinning of teh microchip revolution, but it's always a truth that they will kill and lie to preserve teh shape of history that they recognize.

I think with some minor jiggering,and a few more notable guest stars, that Shattered would have made an excellent finale.

 

[Bones2]

Actually, that's a good point, if in a roundabout way. It's entirely plausible (based on ST09) that the events of Endgame in fact depict the creation of another timeline, another universe, which Admiral Janeway creates and then dies in. So everything that she tried to stop happening, still happened, but in another universe.

The problem with STXI is that (assuming the Prime universe is, after all, preserved) is runs contrary to almost all other time travel in Trek, that is to say that a change in the past affects the future, rather than creating a different one. The writers of STXI always cite TNG: Parallels for their version, but that doesn't quite work.

Personally, my explanation is that red matter created black holes uniquely create offshoot timelines. This means that time travel works the way it's supposed to in both ways, and most importantly, that the Prime timeline is preserved.

...of course, it is just a TV show. Eheh.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The TOS defiant from the Tholian Web traveled back in time sideways to the Mirror Archer/Enterprise Universe.

Wibbly wobbly timey whimey.

 

[RyuRoots]

The TOS defiant from the Tholian Web traveled back in time sideways to the Mirror Archer/Enterprise Universe.

Wibbly wobbly timey whimey.

Yeah...time travel works however the hell the writers want it to work in a given episode/film.

 

[nx1701g]

The TOS defiant from the Tholian Web traveled back in time sideways to the Mirror Archer/Enterprise Universe.

Wibbly wobbly timey whimey.

Yeah...time travel works however the hell the writers want it to work in a given episode/film.

Pretty much.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

The TOS defiant from the Tholian Web traveled back in time sideways to the Mirror Archer/Enterprise Universe.

Wibbly wobbly timey whimey.

Yeah...time travel works however the hell the writers want it to work in a given episode/film.

DS9 "Little Green Men" established that time travel is easy and controllable. You just need to fly a shuttle full of some magic substance through a nuclear explosion. After that one it's a wonder that people didn't start travelling through time as often as they travel through space.