Endgame was awesome!

[Guy Gardener]

6 months ago Brannon said on twitter that that had been the plan since day one.

Most people think he's lying. Maybe it was a half assed inkling in competition with other half assed inklings, but there's no way it was set in stone as the big reveal primed for a delayed gratification 3 or 4 years down the line.

In 2001 when Enterprise started, anyone who made a list of who Future guy might have been, they would have put Archer on that list, and then crossed it off because it's way too cheesy, only slightly less cheesy than making it John's dad Hank.

Or is that not what you meant MacLeod?

 

[Melakon]

Maybe Future Guy was Zefrem Cochrane. As far as the 22nd century and everyone other than Kirk, Spock, and McCoy knows, he disappeared after flying off into space.

 

[Merlanthe]

I would have liked Endgame better if it had been Seven who travelled back in time instead of Janeway and if her plan to get Voyager home had ultimately failed but led to tthe destruction of the Borg transhub thing and them being flung past Borg territory and much closer to home.

The scenes in teh future at the beginning would have given an impression of how things would end up for our characters and the end scene could have been the crew all happy and optimistic with teh knowledge that home is only round the next corner rather than all the way accross town.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So he's still on the metamorphosis planetoid 6 hundred years later, using the cloud as a transmitter to send orders through time to his soldiers in the past?

Which is sex.

Zeph makes love with the cloud to create a temporal radio transmitter.

 

[Lance]

^ I'm the opposite. I think this show could've used a lot less AGT. I mean we see the alternate future of VOY crew on Earth, but by the episodes end that timeline is erased. I think they wasted an opportunity and our time by showing us something that was going to be inconsequential and different from what actually happens by episodes end. Yes it gives future Janeway motivations, but it's not about Future Janeway.

Things I wanted to see:

1. I wanted to see the VOY crew actually make it to Earth, and set foot on it!

2. I wanted to see how the crew adjusted to being back on Earth after 7 years in deep space.

3. I wanted to see how the characters (especially the Maqui) dealt with this post-Dominion War Federation.

4. I wanted to know if the former VOY Maqui were going to be charged or face any punitive actions.

5. I wanted to see Janeway face the Starfleet brass regarding the exabytes of information she gathered in the DQ. Also to see if any of the admirals would verbally accost Janeway for her rash decision to strand herself, her crew and the Maqui in the DQ in the first place.

Everything you say is true and it's exactly what they should have done.

Having said that, I don't think we ever had a snowball's chance in hell of it actually happening. It would have required Voyager's final episode to be introspective and backwards looking, and I think it's pretty clear that The Powers That Be were long past the point of wanting to dissect the series' premise, or go back to those original format documents and explore who those characters are. They'd moved on, and all they were really interested in was doing something explosive where Janeway could kick ass.

It is criminal that, for a series where the whole damn premise is "we gotta get home", the only snatches of Voyager actually arriving home that we get to see are news recordings seen retrospectively in the non-existant future timeline that never happened.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Here's the thing about Series 7. I'm not sure of the exactly particulars but in the broadest possible way... Berman and Braga were building the foundations of Enterprise where they thought they would be for the next 7 years and a couple movies.

The actual drones doing the heaving lifting and day to day in season seven of Voyager were the old men looking at retirement, pissed that they hadn't been asked to move on to Enterprise and the children who were pissed because they thought they had a future here who clearly didn't because they hadn't been asked to move on to Enterprise.

Season Seven of Voyager made by the angry bitter, and resentful.

 

[Melakon]

I'm probably going to watch"Endgame" again tonight in a few minutes, and just finished with "Dark Frontier". I usually skip "Unimatrix Zero". All I'll say is I thought it appropriate that they managed to grab Alice Krige to bookend the Queen she created.

She was already trying to cope with the sexual dynamics being different from her earlier seductive interpretation with Data and Picard. One of the producers told her to think of the Queen as Omni-sexual, and that apparently clicked for her. That was her challenge for the performance, and the TV pace was probably a lot faster than her filmed Trek experience.

I liked seeing Alice back, partly because I first noticed her name in the 1981 film Ghost Story.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I always saw the Queen and Seven as mother and daughter rather than lovers.

Is my incestdar really that poorly aligned?

 

[Melakon]

Well, as the saying goes, "Vice is nice, but incest is best."

And actually, the only reason I paid attention to her name in Ghost Story was because she had a nude scene.

 

[Guy Gardener]

First time I saw her was in a b-grade horror movie called Sleepwalkers, possibly nude, but certainly having sex with her son.

Meh. Didn't leave an impact.

 

[Melakon]

Maybe not, but she was 38 in Sleepwalkers. In Ghost Story, she was 27 and I'd been divorced three years and was 30. So there was an impact.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Her face has this plastic quality even when she's not in Borg make up.

I remember the movie because I saw it with a friend, but I was late and missed the first half, and they wouldn't let me in for half price, or see if my friend was in there before paying fuill price, so I snuck in at intermission... Gosh? Do you remember Intermission? It's like they used to care.

 

[Melakon]

If you mean Intermission (2003) with Cillian Murphy, no, I never saw it. Though I remember cinema intermissions and things like science fiction-- double feature. Doctor X will build a creature. See androids fighting Brad and Janet. Anne Francis stars in Forbidden Planet woah-oh-oh-ohhh-oh-oh-ohhhh. At the late night double feature picture show.

Then of course, there's the Native American Wet Dream, also known as the nocturnal Seminole emission.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They need to remake Rocky Horror.

I'm surprised that kids from Glee didn't release close to the full thing as a dvd extra when they did their homage in season two.

 

[Melakon]

Well, the dvd drive was starting to skip a little bit which means it's heating up, so I'm at a break in "Endgame" and Admiral Janeway is in sickbay getting verified by the Doc and she's just seen Seven for the first time in over 20 years. I'll probably pick it up in the morning since it's after midnight now.

And while looking at the old age makeups, how close did they come in predicting Older Janeway compared to Current Mulgrew*? Though it's only been about 12 years for Kate.

And Garrett did a good job with Older Harry, with a convincing sadder but wiser version of his Normal Harry.

* "Current Mulgrew" - almost sounds like something to put on your morning toast, teacake.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Mulgrew has put on a lot of weight, but then so have I.

You don't watch Warehouse 13?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Mulgrew is even more beautiful now than she was as Captain Janeway.

She has yet to peak.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did I say she was peaky?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Nope but you've never said your interest was piqued either.

 

[Melakon]

. . .You don't watch Warehouse 13?

Old analog TV, don't have cable, haven't seen regular broadcast TV in 5 or 6 years.

Mulgrew is even more beautiful now than she was as Captain Janeway.

Haven't gone to sleep yet; as soon as I made the last post, I was immediately inspired to make a photo-manip for you. Sorry, Kate's not in it. Um, not exactly, anyway. It's only going to be 480 high so don't get your hopes up. Maybe another hour or so to go on it.