Endgame: Im Confused. -Definate Spoilers-

[OmegaGreen17]

Hi there all you people, first post on these forums here.

I've been a keen fan of Star Trek, very keen...too keen sometimes that I have to ask what certain things mean in the whole picture of the Universe of Star Trek.

Im watching the first part of Endgame, im slightly confused...

• Does Old Janeway want to do it so that she changes HER lifetime, as in, SHE will get to meet Seven of Nine and Chakotay?
• (I've read up about the ending) I do not understand whether Voyager coming back years earlier really changes ...anything? Apart from the death toll?
• Old Janeway dies..... but does that mean she has created a NEW timeline, due to the fact Young Janeway is still alive?

This is all to do with the concept of time travel in ST I know, but that in itself is very .....hard to grasp.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

• Does Old Janeway want to do it so that she changes HER lifetime, as in, SHE will get to meet Seven of Nine and Chakotay?

She does it so her crew isn't stranded in the DQ for so long. It's a selfish action, yes, but it hasn't anything to do with her lifetime. If that were the case, she'd have gone back to the very start so she didn't lose Mark.

• (I've read up about the ending) I do not understand whether Voyager coming back years earlier really changes ...anything? Apart from the death toll?

In fact, it did. The Federation now has advanced technology the would not have had for a few decades. Admiral Janeway was an expert on the Borg. Captain Janeway would not have had all that knowledge and expertise, which means the Federation may now be at a risk they may not have been had they had Admiral Janeway's knowledge.

• Old Janeway dies..... but does that mean she has created a NEW timeline, due to the fact Young Janeway is still alive?

Good question, isn't it? It's a time paradox. I don't think it created a new timeline.

 

[Tomalak]

Welcome to the forums, I hope you'll enjoy it.

I was talking about Endgame with a mate last night, we were discussing what went wrong. The Borg/time travel stuff I can take or leave, but we did agree that the final scene was totally misjudged.

How should it have ended? Not with a shot of Earth, but with Janeway and Chakotay on a balcony after the welcome home party. Once we've had all the reunions and a tearful speech from Janeway, you cut to the two of them looking up at the stars, and the captain saying she can't wait to get out there again.

That's Star Trek.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

That would not have made sense considering she wound up an Admiral rather quickly after that.

 

[Tomalak]

That would not have made sense considering she wound up an Admiral rather quickly after that.

What a strange thing to say. We only know she became an Admiral because of Nemesis. So we didn't know she ended up an Admiral so quickly in Endgame.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

That would not have made sense considering she wound up an Admiral rather quickly after that.

What a strange thing to say. We only know she became an Admiral because of Nemesis. So we didn't know she ended up an Admiral so quickly in Endgame.

The fact she took a promotion so quickly indicates to me that Kathryn was done traveling the stars once she returned home. In fact, the books that immediately followed give the same indication.

We have nothing to base it off on the show, but her drive to get back to Earth is so strong by the end of the series and the need so great in Starfleet for people like her in HQ that I can't imagine she would be excited to get back in a Captain's chair when she could stay grounded and be just as helpful to Starfleet.

 

[Kai Winn]

In fact, it did. The Federation now has advanced technology the would not have had for a few decades. Admiral Janeway was an expert on the Borg. Captain Janeway would not have had all that knowledge and expertise, which means the Federation may now be at a risk they may not have been had they had Admiral Janeway's knowledge.

i'm not sure about that. the enterprise-e banged in insurrection and nemesis away with ancient photon torpedoes, not the fancy transphasic ones. one of them would surely have finished the scimitar. picards ship did not have the pretty armour either. i reckon that daniels or one of his workmates gave their blessing to admiral janeway's trip, but beamed the technology off into the future, where it belongs. would be to easy, just take a trip to tomorrow and obtain some technology, all problems solved.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

In fact, it did. The Federation now has advanced technology the would not have had for a few decades. Admiral Janeway was an expert on the Borg. Captain Janeway would not have had all that knowledge and expertise, which means the Federation may now be at a risk they may not have been had they had Admiral Janeway's knowledge.

i'm not sure about that. the enterprise-e banged in insurrection and nemesis away with ancient photon torpedoes, not the fancy transphasic ones. one of them would surely have finished the scimitar. picards ship did not have the pretty armour either. i reckon that daniels or one of his workmates gave their blessing to admiral janeway's trip, but beamed the technology off into the future, where it belongs. would be to easy, just take a trip to tomorrow and obtain some technology, all problems solved.

No... I think it would take Starfleet a long time to analogize the technology Captain Janeway brought back. Which means, they aren't putting it on their flagship until they know everything about it. That's going to take longer than a couple of years to do.

 

[Kai Winn]

huh? along comes the one admiral janeway in a shuttle and fits the technology into voyager over night, and the whole might of the federation needs years to do the same?

 

[Tomalak]

We have nothing to base it off on the show, but her drive to get back to Earth is so strong by the end of the series and the need so great in Starfleet for people like her in HQ that I can't imagine she would be excited to get back in a Captain's chair when she could stay grounded and be just as helpful to Starfleet.

I think that's a total misreading of the Janeway character to be honest. Her drive to return home was due to the fact they were 70 years from safety, and they might all die. She was simply protecting her crew.

Even so, she relished the chance to meet new races and explore new parts of space. She was like Kirk. After six months in a ground assignment she'd be itching to get back into space again.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

huh? along comes the one admiral janeway in a shuttle and fits the technology into voyager over night, and the whole might of the federation needs years to do the same?

I'm saying the bureaucracy of Starfleet would cause massive delays.

 

[OmegaGreen17]

My main question though guys is about the timeline, if its the same one, has the timeline been altered?

 

[Tomalak]

My main question though guys is about the timeline, if its the same one, has the timeline been altered?

Yeah. None of it matters any more after Nero went back in time and blew up the Kelvin.

 

[AuntKate]

Where do people get the idea that generals and admirals aren't "out there"? In the US military, they are definitely out there with the troops, controlling their military presence in vast areas of the world or theaters of conflict. Gen. Petraeus is certainly out there in the field. Gen. Schwarzkopf was in the field, too. Every aircraft carrier has an admiral on it. Every major command has its share. Generals and admirals don't just sit around in D.C. having coffee and sending out orders.

Janeway can be an admiral and still be out there in space. I like to think she was!

 

[Tomalak]

Because Admirals in Star Trek always sit behind desks and spoil everyone's fun!

Captains explore, Admirals sit at home and try and take over the Federation.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I get that from the fact that the Admiral Janeway of the books I am willing to read and what I've seen on screen indicates she was a desk jockey (a sexy desk jockey, but still...). I know there are admirals out in the field. There have to be.

However, the Nero thing caused an alternate reality timeline. I don't think that was the case here.

 

[OmegaGreen17]

My main question though guys is about the timeline, if its the same one, has the timeline been altered?

Yeah. None of it matters any more after Nero went back in time and blew up the Kelvin.

Dont bring that in, that just ****s up the whole conversation on lore

So, basically, Janeway kills herself, but shes from the future, she makes it so that she sacrifices herself for her crew to get home years earlier, since they get home earlier, the Feds get technology that they shouldnt get until a few years later (the amount of time Old Janeway took to get home)...........so then....the crew of the QUICKER Voyager experience a difference future...therefore... the slow Voyager's crew... still exist in the future.. which means there must be two different timelines now?

I need to lie down/ Revise for my Maths module exams coming in a week.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

^ Meh. That makes sense if you assume all possible actions create new timelines. I'm of the opinion that such is not the case and divergent timelines only come into play when gigantic changes happen to the universe like Vulcan being destroyed, for example.

However, Admiral Janeway going back in time did not cause that kind of monumental change to the universe, IMHO.

 

[AuntKate]

The fact that in Nemesis Admiral Janeway is talking to Picard about an issue of security on the borders between Romulan and Federation space tells me that she is in charge of a pretty large and potentially delicate sector of Starfleet operations. She might have been in San Francisco when she contacted Enterprise and ordered them to Romulan space, but her main work area was very likely on a ship or star base near Romulan space. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she wasn't personally in command of the fleet awaiting Enterprise's arrival at Sector 1045.

And the novels? Don't rely on the novels to tell you diddly squat about Janeway. The PB authors don't understand her and can't write her well (although I am reserving judgment about Beyer until I have a chance to read her version of a living, breathing Janeway). The main editor is on record as saying that "Janeway's story had been told," which is a crock. I don't believe for one minute that Janeway would have taken a promotion if it meant sitting in a corner office at SF command and twiddling her thumbs. That just isn't in her character.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I only read the first four books. After that, I'd just as soon burn them than read them.