En-Gay-ify a character.
- Thread starter Arpy
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Yikes, go away for a little while and look at all you miss!
Okay, in the interests of respecting this Original Poster taking the time and effort to participate on this board, how about a few more suggestions of characters? I'm a little sick tonight of the some of the patterns of human behavior on the internet that requires... A little decency ladies and gentleman. A little respect?
I thought my suggestion of Sisko was pretty ingenious...given not so much the reason I gave even, but how not-gay the character works for me.
Anyway, a few more different suggestions and the reasons for them please. This is supposed to be fun. Now we're all going to redouble our efforts and have more fun until it kills us.
Okay, in the interests of respecting this Original Poster taking the time and effort to participate on this board, how about a few more suggestions of characters? I'm a little sick tonight of the some of the patterns of human behavior on the internet that requires... A little decency ladies and gentleman. A little respect?
I thought my suggestion of Sisko was pretty ingenious...given not so much the reason I gave even, but how not-gay the character works for me.
Anyway, a few more different suggestions and the reasons for them please. This is supposed to be fun. Now we're all going to redouble our efforts and have more fun until it kills us.
Data. He was already complex enough that he wouldn't have been the two dimensional token homo, and it's logical. I doubt Soong took the time to program in a preference as to what humanoids Data could be fully functional with.
You could have done social commentary based on that, with Data simply saying that all humanoids were equal, he was free of any biological urges to focus on some over others, and he doesn't understand the controversy that had once surrounded the issue.
I suppose this would have had to have waited until he had his emotion chip, though, since Data was largely asexual during TNG's run.
You could have done social commentary based on that, with Data simply saying that all humanoids were equal, he was free of any biological urges to focus on some over others, and he doesn't understand the controversy that had once surrounded the issue.
I suppose this would have had to have waited until he had his emotion chip, though, since Data was largely asexual during TNG's run.
Both of you need to step back and leave the personal remarks out of this thread.
Tasha disagrees.
Seriously... technically speaking, Data is not likely to be heterosexual or homosexual unless he is programmed to be so. But, we do know that he was programmed to be "funny functional" and know all sorts of sexual techniques. So is he asexual - or he is omnisexual? I presume he could have sex with just about anyone who expressed a wish to have sex with him, unless his programming prevented him from it, or unless he found it ethically wrong. I presume that homosexuality is accepted in the 24th century Federation, so there's probably no reason why Data couldn't have sex with a man, or why he'd generally have a problem with it, any more that he had a problem with doing it with a woman (Tasha). However, an actual romantic relationship with anyone, no matter the gender, would be much more difficult for him, as seen in In Theory.
I never understood the need to inject anyone's sexuality in a TV show that isn't primarily about "teh SEX." I mean really, I could care less what anyone's sexual preference is. Why does it matter? The more we as a society keep on thinking that it matters, the longer it will. Isn't the society seen in the show, where no one seems to care either way, more desirable than agonizing over it? We as a society will never reach their level if we continue to care about what other people decide to do with their lives, fictional or otherwise.
^ You didn't do what this thread is about.
That said, I would like to reply to what you did say. We're going through an oversexed time in history I suspect is a reaction to our undersexed past and it'll all even itself out if we use this time wisely. I don't care about who's sleeping with who any more than you.
How many gay threads are there in the history of this BB? A fraction of those about uniforms I'm sure yet we don't ask why "fashion" matters in every one, again and again. It doesn't. It's just fun to talk about every however often.
I reiterate: the point of this thread isn't do discuss the importance of sex. Thread is a creative exercise. I could have as easily suggested we change the race or gender or species of a character. Or make a good guy bad, kill off a character, or change the class of the ship, or the empire a character is in, or their age, etc etc etc etc. If you want to answer, please do. If not, well, you know what you're getting into by the title alone.
How about starting a thread about how intrusive sex is in Star Trek. Surely it's not gayness that's intrusive in any way save for its completely unrealistic, simplistic, and insulting absence. So please discuss how Troi/Riker, Jadzia/Worf, Janeway/Chakotay, Sisko/Cassidy, T'Pol/Tucker, Kirk/Everyone, etc etc etc etc was really annoying. I'll join you. The portrayal of these relationships really annoyed the hell out of me.
But before you do, En-gay-ify a character, in this thread entitled En-gay-ify a character.
That said, I would like to reply to what you did say. We're going through an oversexed time in history I suspect is a reaction to our undersexed past and it'll all even itself out if we use this time wisely. I don't care about who's sleeping with who any more than you.
How many gay threads are there in the history of this BB? A fraction of those about uniforms I'm sure yet we don't ask why "fashion" matters in every one, again and again. It doesn't. It's just fun to talk about every however often.
I reiterate: the point of this thread isn't do discuss the importance of sex. Thread is a creative exercise. I could have as easily suggested we change the race or gender or species of a character. Or make a good guy bad, kill off a character, or change the class of the ship, or the empire a character is in, or their age, etc etc etc etc. If you want to answer, please do. If not, well, you know what you're getting into by the title alone.
How about starting a thread about how intrusive sex is in Star Trek. Surely it's not gayness that's intrusive in any way save for its completely unrealistic, simplistic, and insulting absence. So please discuss how Troi/Riker, Jadzia/Worf, Janeway/Chakotay, Sisko/Cassidy, T'Pol/Tucker, Kirk/Everyone, etc etc etc etc was really annoying. I'll join you. The portrayal of these relationships really annoyed the hell out of me.
But before you do, En-gay-ify a character, in this thread entitled En-gay-ify a character.
I think the main 'problem' is that, sure, no one is supposed to care about sexual preferences by the 24th century - but that's not what we're shown.
If Trek really wanted to show an enlightened future, in regards to sexual preference, then at least some of the characters in ALL of the series should have had relationships with people of their own gender. Even if it was just a 'romance of the week' - apart from 'Rejoined', I'm really struggling to think of another example where a romance in Trek was anything but straight.
So sure, I'll en-gay-ify a character.
I think Dr Crusher should have attempted to continue her relationship with Odan's female host.
Deanna comes from Betazed, a liberal society where they have weddings in the nude! She could have been bi, and any of her romances of the week could have been with women.
Data, as mentioned above, has trouble with relationships - but I think it would have been interesting if it was a man in 'In Theory' not a woman.
Geordi had no luck in relationships either way, but again, I see no reason why he couldn't have failed in a relationship with a man.
As for DS9. Dax, is an obvious choice - its hosts have been male and female, so gender would be no issue. Jadzia was a fun-loving, liberal sort of character - a brief relationship with a woman other than Lenara Kahn should have been shown (what if Captain Boday was a woman?). Likewise with Ezri - I know we saw Mirror Ezri and Leeta, but it still could have worked in the regular universe.
Doctor Bashir, could have been bi - Melora, or Sarina, could have been a male character. And it would have made his relationship with Garak that little bit more interesting.
I'll continue this a bit later...
If Trek really wanted to show an enlightened future, in regards to sexual preference, then at least some of the characters in ALL of the series should have had relationships with people of their own gender. Even if it was just a 'romance of the week' - apart from 'Rejoined', I'm really struggling to think of another example where a romance in Trek was anything but straight.
So sure, I'll en-gay-ify a character.
I think Dr Crusher should have attempted to continue her relationship with Odan's female host.
Deanna comes from Betazed, a liberal society where they have weddings in the nude! She could have been bi, and any of her romances of the week could have been with women.
Data, as mentioned above, has trouble with relationships - but I think it would have been interesting if it was a man in 'In Theory' not a woman.
Geordi had no luck in relationships either way, but again, I see no reason why he couldn't have failed in a relationship with a man.
As for DS9. Dax, is an obvious choice - its hosts have been male and female, so gender would be no issue. Jadzia was a fun-loving, liberal sort of character - a brief relationship with a woman other than Lenara Kahn should have been shown (what if Captain Boday was a woman?). Likewise with Ezri - I know we saw Mirror Ezri and Leeta, but it still could have worked in the regular universe.
Doctor Bashir, could have been bi - Melora, or Sarina, could have been a male character. And it would have made his relationship with Garak that little bit more interesting.
I'll continue this a bit later...
Yeah. Kirk flirting with women was one of the most boring, annoying and insignificant aspects of the characterization - wasn't it?
It certainly never had any bearing whatever on the plots or outcomes of the stories.
Maybe the episode should have ended with Crusher going, "Well, this is going to be different."
They try to continue the relationship offscreen, but it goes nowhere since she has to remain onboard. Bi? I dunno, I think sexual contact can be enjoyable with both genders, but most people generally have a preference. True bisexuals, who could be equally happy with one of either gender, are rarer I think.
Soong did say he programmed him to be able to pursue whatever career path he chose, so maybe he programmed him to pursue whatever sex he chose also. Again, Data doesn't have a sex drive so it's not about getting his jollies or procreating for him so much as exploring the possibilities of his existence and making bonds with people. And yes he's "fully functional" so ...wait, I wonder if that means that he can, you know, ejaculate artificial chromosomes that could unite with another of his android species and procreate that way as well as build a child like with Lal.
Anyway, yeah "Lessons" could have been Trek's first real gay episode (though technically Data is not a man) and could also have been better overall.
Aw leave the man be, already! Besides, he seemed socially adept enough - he just neeed to find the right woman. And not freakin' married Leah Brahms! ...One of the few things about "All Good Things..." I didn't like. There are trillions, quadrillions maybe, of woman in the galaxy...Geordi had no luck in relationships either way, but again, I see no reason why he couldn't have failed in a relationship with a man.
Hey, what if in "Emergence" the Enterprise comes alive in a different way and he ends up falling for it instead. And vice versa of course. Somebody's gotta like the guy. What the hell would you call that kind of relationship? Really "hetero" sexual?
But you know he didn't have the love affair with his ship Scotty or Kirk had with their ships...though Kirk did actually kill his. Ike Turner or Chris Brown would be proud.
Great suggestions, all of them, Arix.
To reply to an earlier post of my own and MAJ's, maybe heterosexuals "don't care" about gay characters because they're not used to seeing them. That's something changing now and any change can be uncomfortable first, certainly one concerning a subject that was taboo to us. But gay people are a part of life as black people, or Christian people, or any other group of people are. For that reason at least should the total absence of gay people on Trek be something you care about: because their absence means the writers aren't being realistic or respectful, and that can warp your understanding of reality or lead to disrespect of you.
Thanks, Sector 7. You know, one of the things I hate about these boards is posting something and then never getting any reply. And I mean just when someone agrees with you. Never mind disagreements. Silence is an alienating, wretched form of agreement. Often disagreement...depending on how vehement it is, is preferable. ...Good luck posting to you.
Maybe the episode should have ended with Crusher going, "Well, this is going to be different."
Aw leave the man be, already! Besides, he seemed socially adept enough - he just neeed to find the right woman. And not freakin' married Leah Brahms! ...One of the few things about "All Good Things..." I didn't like. There are trillions, quadrillions maybe, of woman in the galaxy...Geordi had no luck in relationships either way, but again, I see no reason why he couldn't have failed in a relationship with a man.
Great suggestions, all of them, Arix.
Thanks Arpy! I'm sorry I didn't get back to post more sooner, I had to go out in the middle of writing my post, and then forgot about it for a few days!
re: Dr Crusher, I would rather it was implied that they did try to continue their relationship.
And as for Geordi, hahaha, I was joking/being a bit harsh on the poor guy. I would have liked to see him succeed in more relationships.
I think the great thing about DS9 is that it portrayed more than just brief flings with random love interest of the week. Sisko and Kassidy dated then got married. Julian and Leeta were shown in a relationship, and then breaking it off. Leeta then married Rom. Jadzia married Worf. Kira was shown in relationship with Bariel, Shakaar and then finally Odo. It treated relationships in a much more realistic way than any of the other series did, except maybe Tom and B'Elanna getting married in Voyager.
Now continuing on from earlier...
Just as Data isn't truly male... Neither was Odo. If the 'Female shape-shifter' had been a 'Male' it might have been more interesting...
Moving on to Voyager now... Both the Doctor and Seven could have explored same-sex relationships, as both of them spent their time on the series 'discovering' humanity and learning how to form relationships.
Seven might have asked Janeway about relationships, and Janeway could have then taken the opportunity to explain that sexual orientation wasn't even an 'issue', like it was in the past of x, y and z cultures (or maybe it'd even give examples of how same-sex relationships were preferred in x Federation culture).
Kes might be another example of a character who could have explored same-sex relationships, after she broke up with Neelix. With such a curiosity about life and the universe, she might have been curious about exploring her sexuality. I can't remember the guy's name from the episode "Darkling" (I think that was the episode at least), but again, I think it'd be interesting if it was a woman instead.
And while I don't agree with cardboard cut-out Chakotay and Harry Kim, if I was going to re-do Voyager, I wouldn't rule out either of them being gay - but I'd also give them more personality all together.
And of course, Enterprise was another missed opportunity. I believe there were rumours about Malcolm Reed being gay, so I think that could have worked. Trip or Travis are other possibilities. And even Hoshi... Or T'Pol - a lesbian Vulcan might have been interesting, especially when she was questioned by the others, e.g. "Aren't same-sex relationships considered 'illogical'?"
To finish off,
I completely agree!
My main issue is that NO same-sex relationships were truly explored in ANY of the 5 series! It should have just been a normal thing, for any of the characters to fall in love with a person, regardless of gender. Even if no long-term relationship (ala Sisko and Kassidy, or Tom and B'Elanna) were explored, having a same-sex 'love interest of the week' should have been a common occurence!
Thanks guys
Thank you, Nick.
And, yeah, he's cute.
Some others while we're at it:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Kelis.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Wyatt_Miller.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/J.P._Hubbell
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rudolf_Martin
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Billy_Burke
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0941404/ (great voice)
...that was fun.
A Hoshi - T'Pol pairing makes a fair amount of sense, they are a intellectual match for each other. Both socially reserved. They can speak each others languages, which would help Hoshi understand T'Pol and her culture more. Hoshi explaining Humans to T'Pol, I don't know. Maybe T'Pol's mother would have been more accepting of T'Pol bring Hoshi home for a visit than she (the mother) was of Trip's visit. Personally, I would still hold out for a honest relationship, not just a weekly lesbian sex scene, err we can have that too.
Someone else who it interesting to consider is Tasha Yar, Never really got to know her as well as most of the Trek characters, of the three female characters on TNG I think hers' would have been the one for the writer to move into a lesbian storyline. Barkley, a guy I always liked, is someone who never seem to express a sexuality that I can remember, his gay relationship could have been laced with humor.
If one of the trek series ever had the guts to have a gay storyline I don't think it would have been between two main characters. More likely it would have involved a main character and a secondary character, someone who was on the show as much as say Guinan or Miles O'Brian were during TNG. While I would never want a main character to be just "The Gay Character," the reoccurring character would pretty much be "The Partner," they would be brought on to the series to show that Tasha, Worf or Geordi (or whoever) had an off-duty life.
Someone else who it interesting to consider is Tasha Yar, Never really got to know her as well as most of the Trek characters, of the three female characters on TNG I think hers' would have been the one for the writer to move into a lesbian storyline. Barkley, a guy I always liked, is someone who never seem to express a sexuality that I can remember, his gay relationship could have been laced with humor.
If one of the trek series ever had the guts to have a gay storyline I don't think it would have been between two main characters. More likely it would have involved a main character and a secondary character, someone who was on the show as much as say Guinan or Miles O'Brian were during TNG. While I would never want a main character to be just "The Gay Character," the reoccurring character would pretty much be "The Partner," they would be brought on to the series to show that Tasha, Worf or Geordi (or whoever) had an off-duty life.
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