EM Drive To Receive Peer Review

[Dryson]

NASA's EMDrive And The Quantum Theory Of Pilot Waves

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianko...e-quantum-theory-of-pilot-waves/#660018451721

There has been a lot of digital ink spilled over the recent paper on the reactionless thrust device known as the EMDrive. While it's clear that a working EM Drive would violate well established scientific theories, what isn't clear is how such a violation might be resolved. Some have argued that the thrust could be an effect of Unruh radiation, but the authors of the new paper argue instead for a variation on quantum theory known as the pilot wave model.

Maybe there is a hidden wave length the is creating a force against the microwaves or vice versus where the microwave is placing a force on a hidden wave length on the quantum level.

Since the net thrust cannot be determined with the standard model then the quantum model must hold the answers.

 

[JWPlatt]

Always with the quantum waves, Moriarty. Always with the quantum waves.

Why can't the designer explain how it works? His microwave oven and some copper mugs didn't just fall off the kitchen shelf in a fit of accidental appliance procreation like peanut butter and chocolate having Reese's Cup babies. It was intentionally designed and built, yet can't be explained. A gift from aliens?

 

[publiusr]

Well, to be fair, while most of us knew 1+1=2 It took others 300 pages to find out why
http://blog.computationalcomplexity.org/2011/07/why-did-112-take-russell-and-whitehead.html

We see the universe come up with all kinds of things--and sometimes the math takes longer than a physical effect.

There can be interesting quantume effects: http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/First_Signs_of_Weird_Quantum_Property_of_Empty_Space_999.html

 

[JWPlatt]

The universe didn't build the drive. The universe built the person who built the drive. The math existed before the drive. That's what engineers do.

 

[psCargile]

Go to EMdrive.com. Shawyer says radiation pressure is the basis for the design.

But it's not jumping off the table and slamming into the wall. If he is correct—and there is plenty of reason for doubt—I don't see how it's going to scale up to usable thrust velocities for practical use.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I wouldn't bet the farm or even £1 on it actually working.

 

[psCargile]

At first I was hopefully skeptical, but I'm not sold on it.

Wonder if there is any variation of thrust between east-west and north-south orientations? Maybe it's countering the Earth's rotation?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

EM interaction with the Earth's magnetic field, EM interaction with the power cables or ablation of the outer surface due to heating -- any of those could produce a minuscule thrust even in a vacuum.

 

[JWPlatt]

I believe orientation was tested.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Well, it's claimed that the Chinese are going to test the drive in space. I'll believe it works when they use it to colonise the solar system.

 

[psCargile]

Unshielded cables! O! The humanities!

 

[Dryson]

http://ocw.upm.es/ingenieria-aeroes...material-de-clase/mse07_radiationpressure.pdf

This is a very in depth paper by Manuel Ruiz Delgado

You Tube Video behind the physics of the EM Drive.

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[Asbo Zaprudder]

http://ocw.upm.es/ingenieria-aeroes...material-de-clase/mse07_radiationpressure.pdf

This is a very in depth paper by Manuel Ruiz Delgado

... that has nothing to do with the EM drive (besides being basically a set of Powerpoint slides rather than a paper).

You Tube Video behind the physics of the EM Drive.

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Yep, that's some bad physics.

 

[psCargile]

In the presentation, are the red and blue sine waves supposed to represent the microwaves? If so, it seems like he is suggesting an increase in amplitude at the large end simply because there is more room for the waves to move into, which doesn't sound right.

 

[JWPlatt]

I wouldn't over-analyse a simple diagram. Couldn't it be said that more energy is contained within more space?

 

[publiusr]

This may be old news--but--FWIW
http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/1.B36120

Another look at what EM spacecraft might look like:
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/cannae-will-try-to-prove-propellentless.html


Meanwhile, hobbyists look for smaller gear:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41732.msg1617344#msg1617344
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/High_precision_magnetic_field_sensing_999.html

Maybe SLS has a giant frustrum
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31740.msg1598532#msg1598532

Now you're coking with plasma http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Cold_plasma_freshens_up_French_fries_999.html

Speaking of magnetic fields
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/superconducting-trapped-field-magnets.html

Now folks are wondering if light will do
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41783.0

An EM lightsail pushed by a nuclear lightbulb, say?

 

[psCargile]

I wouldn't over-analyse a simple diagram. Couldn't it be said that more energy is contained within more space?

Then that would be free energy.

 

[psCargile]

An EM lightsail pushed by a nuclear lightbulb, say

You can use the nuclear light bulb to heat remass as thrust. Got to love Atomic Rockets Engine List. (And there are better options.)

 

[publiusr]

The NSWR 90% solution looks the best--if we could find a way to deal with all the heat. Only the top end fusion and antimatter photon drives have better specific impulse--and only NSWRs give you both high thrust and high specific impulse.

 

[Dryson]

I wouldn't over-analyse a simple diagram. Couldn't it be said that more energy is contained within more space?

Maybe not.

If Quantum energy can be packed into a smaller space than would be present in normal space time then the smaller space would contain more energy compared to the same energy in normal space time.