Eliminate the Department of Homeland Security

[Knight Templar]

This site makes some good arguments in my opinion.

https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/dhs/

I've always thought that the only real reason the department was created was because of the post 9-11 hysteria to "do something".

And I've always hated the name. "Homeland Security". Why did they have to say "Homeland". Sounds like something out of pre World War One Germany or France.

At least they could have called it "Domestic Security".

Still a bad idea but at least with a more innocuous name.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

I agree.

 

[gturner]

Well what else should we call it, The Department of Underpants Insspections?

 

[Knight Templar]

Well what else should we call it, The Department of Underpants Insspections?

I suggested "Domestic Security".

"Federal Security" has been suggested by someone I know.

I'm sure people can come up with others. I wonder who suggested "Homeland"?

 

[sojourner]

I think the "Department of Domestic Tranquility" has more ominous overtones.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I've always thought that the only real reason the department was created was because of the post 9-11 hysteria to "do something".

I don't think the idea of consolidating the wildly out of control law enforcement and intelligence apparatus of the country to a certain extent is inherently a bad one, but unfortunately that wasn't really what happened. It put them under one umbrella department but the information handling still seemed to be just as convoluted and overly-compartmentalized, and they ended up expanding the size and scope of law enforcement and intelligence even more than they did pre-9/11 --when the goal should have been making it more efficient, less redundant, and more cooperative.

And I've always hated the name. "Homeland Security". Why did they have to say "Homeland". Sounds like something out of pre World War One Germany or France.

I've always disliked the name as well. It comes a bit too close to the Soviet Motherland or Nazi Fatherland (not that I'm comparing it to them) and even the Heartland (as in all that "city folk aren't as important as the REAL Americans in the Heartland" crap), the latter of which doesn't evoke very positive imagery when you consider the attitude of the administration that named the agency.

 

[gturner]

And "Home Land security" is Bill the rent-a-cop who keeps the trailer park safe, though homeland also sounds like they're a dealership.

"Here at Home Land we've got your single wides, your double wides, every kind of home you can imagine. We've got easy financing too. So come on down to Home Land!"

 

[Misfit Toy]

This site makes some good arguments in my opinion.

https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/dhs/

I've always thought that the only real reason the department was created was because of the post 9-11 hysteria to "do something".

And I've always hated the name. "Homeland Security". Why did they have to say "Homeland". Sounds like something out of pre World War One Germany or France.

At least they could have called it "Domestic Security".

Still a bad idea but at least with a more innocuous name.

Do you have similar misgivings about the PATRIOT Act?

 

[Marc]

Even if he just had the name can aged I could see the GOP running around saying it was a sign Obama's weak on security.

 

[Knight Templar]

This site makes some good arguments in my opinion.

https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/dhs/

I've always thought that the only real reason the department was created was because of the post 9-11 hysteria to "do something".

And I've always hated the name. "Homeland Security". Why did they have to say "Homeland". Sounds like something out of pre World War One Germany or France.

At least they could have called it "Domestic Security".

Still a bad idea but at least with a more innocuous name.

Do you have similar misgivings about the PATRIOT Act?

I do have some misgivings though I think overall the dangers of the Patriot Act (another stupid name by the way) are overstated.

 

[MacLeod]

II've been trying to think of a way to phrase this.

But for grapping headlines etc.. you want somerthing that the vast majority of people will quickly grasp. People talk about their home city/state/provence/county etc.. so using homeland is an extension of that.

As for terms like the Patriot Act, if I were a cynic I would say it goes along the lines of how can you be a patriot if you don't support the PAtriot act. It's almost as if you either for us or against us if you don't support this act.

Now I believe that this act came about as a response to terrorism, and I'm not arguing against taking increased security measures. But for every freedom that is restricted or curtailed because of trying to prevent acts of terrosim the terrorist win.

 

[Knight Templar]

I personally understand the Patriot Act in the aftermath of 9-11 when everyone expected another major attack or at least seriously numbers of smaller attacks on the U.S. domestically.

But it has been more than a decade now. Surely we are not expected to have the same level of watchfulness for the remainder of our lives.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

This site makes some good arguments in my opinion.

https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/dhs/

I've always thought that the only real reason the department was created was because of the post 9-11 hysteria to "do something".

And I've always hated the name. "Homeland Security". Why did they have to say "Homeland". Sounds like something out of pre World War One Germany or France.

At least they could have called it "Domestic Security".

Still a bad idea but at least with a more innocuous name.

Do you have similar misgivings about the PATRIOT Act?

I do have some misgivings though I think overall the dangers of the Patriot Act (another stupid name by the way) are overstated.

The USA PATRIOT Act is at least an inappropriate tool. Basically, our wiretapping protections were set up in two tiers. There's the one for law enforcement and there's the looser one for counterintelligence. It's basically reduced oversight, longer periods of time with no oversight, and some more flexibility with other warrant requirements. The Patriot act essentially lowered the threshold so general law enforcement cases could fall under this relaxed standard.

If you're of the opinion that the government should not be doing this no matter what or that the government can always do this, the Patriot act isn't a bad thing. If you're of the opinion that, even if it's ok for the CIA and FBI to do it against a foreign spy in what will likely never be a criminal prosecution, it's entirely different to make it a routine part of law enforcement and criminal prosecutions, then it's a pretty dramatic change. Personally, I think we have a very good oversight system that can work without compromising safety, so it's a shame when we don't use it.

 

[The Green Mushroom]

I'm not against consolidating law enforcement agencies and what not together. I honestly cannot say how many different federal law enforcement groups there and I have actually tried to count them. At one point I considered that if I was made King of America I would consolidate them all under one roof with one management system. Call them all U.S. Marshals or slap them all in Coast Guard uniforms and call them the U.S. Guard. (I would probably still agree with that today. If the Coast Guard adopted a few new ratings to deal with a few extra law enforcement missions I would trust them to absorb the alphabet soup of federal anti-this-and-that agencies.)

But as I see things the Homeland Security thing was a failed effort at consolidation that just created more bureaucracy, a failed attempt to make it look like someone was doing something, a way to scare people (the TERRORISTS are coming! And they're coming to IDAHO!!!!), and a way to create a new industry to waste tax money protecting the world's largest ball of yarn.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Maclooed posted:

Now I believe that this act came about as a response to terrorism, and I'm not arguing against taking increased security measures. But for every freedom that is restricted or curtailed because of trying to prevent acts of terrosim the terrorist win.

If you wanna go trough with the PNAC you have to have more authoritarian state. I think that's the primary reason.