Eddington's vitriolic assessment of The Federation
- Thread starter Ragitsu
- Start date
Those colonists chose to stay on worlds that now belonged to the Cardassians. They were offered resettlement and didn't take it. Hell, they were warned by the Federation that those worlds were hotly contested before they even went to live there, according to Admiral Necheyev. Those colonists knew full well they were walking into dangerous territory, but did it anyway. When there are any number of other habitable planets not in a hot zone, that's just ignoring the warnings and crying foul when things didn't go like they thought. That's entitled, bratty behavior.
And while the Cardassian colonists were getting arms shipments, no violent acts by them were actually made until after the Bok'nor was destroyed. So despite the Cardassians making the first aggressive posture, the first aggressive action was indeed made by the Maquis.
Appearance and actions are two separate things.
Had the Maquis actually tried to find evidence of the Cardassian shipments, the issue might have been solved. We'll never know because the first thing they did was blow up a ship with a crew of over 70 people.
We don't know that. According to Hudson, people are killed every week by the Cardassians.
Nope. Now you're conflating different episodes.
"Journey's End" (TNG) explicitly established that Dorvan V was being ceded to the Cardassian Union by the Federation, and nothing has ever established that the humans of Dorvan V ever joined the Maquis. "Journey's End" did not establish that the planets inhabited by the people who became the Maquis were ceded to the Cardassians.
In fact, not a single episode established that any of those worlds were transferred to the Cardassians! The only thing that was established was that there were colony worlds that were part of the Demilitarized Zone, in which both Starfleet and the Cardassian military were banned from operating. "The Maquis, Parts I & II" established that the Cardassian Central Command got around this ban by transferring arms to puppet militias that were "officially" not part of the military, who then resumed hostilities against Federation settlers. The Federation, however, refused to act to enforce the treaty and allowed these clear violations of the treaty to go without a response.
Which is irrelevant, because the Federation claimed those planets at the time and therefore those colonists had a legal right to reside there by Federation law.
False. The Cardassian militias were already attacking Federation colonists and the Federation was refusing to take action. That is why the Maquis formed and escalated.
Hudson was a Starfleet officer who only became a Maquis because he saw Federation colonists being attacked and killed by Cardassian puppet militias and was infuriated the Federation refused to protect its citizens.
Watch the episode again. The very first thing that happens in "THE MAQUIS, PART I" is the Maquis guy blowing up the Bok'nor. Attacks on colonists were only mentioned after that explosion.
And okay, the Federation had a legal claim on those worlds when the settlers went over there. That also means the the Federation had a legal claim to cede those worlds to the Cardassians in the treaty. And we may not have seen the Federation offer resettlement for those other colonies, but since Starfleet ordered the Federation flagship to move the colonists of Dorvan V, you really think they wouldn't have done the same with those other worlds?
And they were mentioned as predating the Bok'Nor attack.
Which, again, no episode established that they did do so. The only thing that was established as that the new treaty established the DMZ in which both Starfleet and the Cardassian military were supposed to stay out, that Federation colonists in the DMZ were supposed to be protected from violence by the terms of the treaty, and that the Cardassian Central Command was arming militias to attack Federation settlers.
Nothing canonical has established this to be the case, and even if it were so it's irrelevant. Again, those settlers had a legal right to be there, and they were supposed to be protected by the terms of the treaty. The Cardassians were violating that treaty and the Federation refused to protect them even though they were UFP citizens.
I'm not sure what this has to do with my assertion, given that we first meet Hudson after the Bok'Nor has been destroyed. The movement that will come to identify itself as the Maquis is underway at this point, and it's in Hudson's best interests to misrepresent things in the colonists' favor if you assume his allegiance to Starfleet has already been compromised.
And the colonists did not have a legal right to blow up Cardassian ships!
And by the way, dialogue from "THE MAQUIS, PART I" was clear that the "colonists refused to evacuate". This was during the conversation between Sisko and Hudson in Sisko's office when he first arrived. If they refused to evacuate, that means the colonists were either offered resettlement or had a situation similar to Dorvan V. In other words, it is clearly established that the Federation at least tried to get those colonists to leave.
Then we find Sisko and Dukat in the runabout and they monitor the attack in the DMZ. The Cardassians were attacking the Federation merchant ship... which is, again after the Bok'nor was destroyed. Those two ships were then destroyed by what appears to be a Maquis ship.
Next, we see them on the colony with the colony leaders and Gul Evek. Hudson mentions 'not a day goes by' that a random act of violence occurs against the colonies. However, no one was mentioned to being killed. Assuming Hudson is being accurate (which is dubious, at best), that still means the Maquis escalated things greatly. Attacks and injury, while deplorable, are one thing... blowing up a freighter and killing over 70 people is quite another.
And again, the Maquis never tried to prove the Cardassians were shipping weapons to their colonies. They went straight to violence. You can't blame the Federation for not trying to help the colonists uphold the treaty when those colonists didn't even bother to attempt to make their case to the Federation.
So yes, the Maquis did start the private little war in the DMZ.
Your entire argument relies upon assuming that a massive event that couldn't reasonably be faked (Cardassian militias attacking Federation colonists) has been faked. Those dead bodies would have had to come from somewhere.
*sigh* The discussion of the Federation colonists' legal rights is a specific refutation of the idea that the Federation didn't have an obligation to protect its colonists from the Cardassians because the planets had been contested. Do try to keep up.
Okay, I've pulled the transcript. I did mis-remember Hudson's line establishing that Federation colonies had been ceded to the Cardassians: mea culpa! Here is the transcript:
HUDSON: I know. You can't imagine how my life has changed since the Federation abandoned these colonies.
SISKO: Abandoned them? Doesn't your presence there
HUDSON: My presence there is a joke. I am supposed to help these colonies function under the terms of the new treaty. Now Ben, what the hell does that mean?
SISKO: I thought these colonists wanted to stay. That they refused to evacuate.
HUDSON: The treaty gave away their territory to the Cardassians, territory that these people had invested their lives in. Now, Ben, if you knew them as I do, you'd know why they can't leave. It's a bad treaty. The Federation gave away too much.
SISKO: Several Cardassian colonies wanted to stay on the Federation side of the Zone too. It seemed like a reasonable compromise
HUDSON: Well, yes, the Cardassians would love to have their colonies in our territory. Because they knew we'd protect them. But they have no intention of doing the same for ours.
SISKO: Abandoned them? Doesn't your presence there
HUDSON: My presence there is a joke. I am supposed to help these colonies function under the terms of the new treaty. Now Ben, what the hell does that mean?
SISKO: I thought these colonists wanted to stay. That they refused to evacuate.
HUDSON: The treaty gave away their territory to the Cardassians, territory that these people had invested their lives in. Now, Ben, if you knew them as I do, you'd know why they can't leave. It's a bad treaty. The Federation gave away too much.
SISKO: Several Cardassian colonies wanted to stay on the Federation side of the Zone too. It seemed like a reasonable compromise
HUDSON: Well, yes, the Cardassians would love to have their colonies in our territory. Because they knew we'd protect them. But they have no intention of doing the same for ours.
So even here, it's clear that the Cardassians remain the aggressors: they were deliberately choosing to arm their militias to assault Federates within Cardassian territory in violation of the treaty, and the Federation was not taking meaningful action to protect them.
Per Hudson's lines:
HUDSON: I knew him. Bill Samuels was a farmer. He cultivated his land for twenty years. He raised two kids on that land. He made something out of that land and the Federation told him he had to give it all up to the Cardassians. Well, he just was not willing to do that.
SISKO: And it was people like him who made both sides realise that some accommodation had to be made for the colonies so they could stay.
HUDSON: The Cardassians have no intention of allowing these people to stay. They will either force them out or they will kill them. It's already started. Not a day goes when there's not some random act of violence against our people. Every Federation colonist knows you do not go out alone at night. Can you imagine living in that kind of fear?
SISKO: If you're saying the Cardassian authorities are not enforcing the laws, we can -
HUDSON: Enforcing the laws? The Cardassian authorities were part of a mob that stoned two colonists on the streets of Ropal City three days ago.
SISKO: That's something the Federation can take up with the Cardassians at the highest level.
HUDSON: Well that will help a lot. The word is the Cardassian High Command is arming their colonists to the teeth.
SISKO: And it was people like him who made both sides realise that some accommodation had to be made for the colonies so they could stay.
HUDSON: The Cardassians have no intention of allowing these people to stay. They will either force them out or they will kill them. It's already started. Not a day goes when there's not some random act of violence against our people. Every Federation colonist knows you do not go out alone at night. Can you imagine living in that kind of fear?
SISKO: If you're saying the Cardassian authorities are not enforcing the laws, we can -
HUDSON: Enforcing the laws? The Cardassian authorities were part of a mob that stoned two colonists on the streets of Ropal City three days ago.
SISKO: That's something the Federation can take up with the Cardassians at the highest level.
HUDSON: Well that will help a lot. The word is the Cardassian High Command is arming their colonists to the teeth.
In other words, the Cardassians were killing people, and they were doing so with intent to engage in the interstellar equivalent of ethnic cleansing.
Hudson's lines make it pretty clear they did try to get the Federation to protect them and it refused.
And, how much Cardassian aggression was there, really? And did the Central Command really arm and encourage the local militias? And were the Federation colonists really as pure as the driven snow?
Maybe the answers are "lots", "yes", and "yes". But we only hear from one side. That might be enough for you to draw a conclusion but it's not for me.
Maybe the answers are "lots", "yes", and "yes". But we only hear from one side. That might be enough for you to draw a conclusion but it's not for me.
Regarding my statement about the Maquis not having the legal right to blow up ships...
I was essentially throwing your legality back at you because it really didn't apply to what was going on. How about you try to keep up?
Regarding the dialogue between Sisko and Hudson...
I know what was said, because I went back and rewatched those scenes to make sure I was correct in my statement. With the scene in his office, not once did Hudson mention that the Cardassians were arming their side. And, in addition to rewatching those scenes and according to your own posted transcript, he never bothered to tell Sisko. As a longtime friend, you'd think he would have at least tried to tell Sisko about the Cardassians arming their colonists because even if Hudson did try to tell Starfleet, which he never did, and they ignored him, he could have made the effort with Sisko, who would certainly have been more receptive because of their friendship. So it is NOT actually clear that the Cardassians were the aggressors at this point.
And if you reread your own transcript, there was not a single death mentioned on the side of the Federation colonists. Attacks, yes, absolutely... but not a death. If those two were killed, Hudson would have said 'stoned to death'. So while I agree that the Cardassians did start making things hard on those colonists, the Maquis killed a lot more Cardassians than the Cardassians injured colonists.
And, again, reread Hudson's words. He never said he or the colonists went to the Federation to try to prove that the Cardassians were arming their side and hurting them.
The Cardassian Union was at this point a totalitarian society under the complete domination of the Central Command and the Obsidian Order. The idea that Cardassian settlers could get their hands on weapons and attack Federation citizens without the approval of the Cardassian government is extremely implausible.
In addition, when they thought the Maquis had captured Gul Dukat in Part II, the Cardassian legate Parn attempted to scapegoat Dukat for the Central Command's policy of arming their puppet militias:
PARN: Please, Commander, your efforts are appreciated but unnecessary. You see, Central Command has learned that Gul Dukat was the leader of a small group of misguided officers who were funnelling weapons to our colonies in the Demilitarised zone.
KIRA: The Maquis are right. The Cardassian settlers are being supplied by the Central Command.
PARN: Dukat and the others were operating entirely without our knowledge. Central Command would never sanction anything that would violate our treaty with the Federation. We've arrested Dukat's co-conspirators and they shall be dealt with accordingly.
SISKO: Where does that leave Dukat?
PARN: With the Maquis, where he belongs.
KIRA: The Maquis are right. The Cardassian settlers are being supplied by the Central Command.
PARN: Dukat and the others were operating entirely without our knowledge. Central Command would never sanction anything that would violate our treaty with the Federation. We've arrested Dukat's co-conspirators and they shall be dealt with accordingly.
SISKO: Where does that leave Dukat?
PARN: With the Maquis, where he belongs.
Dukat subsequently confirms that this was indeed what was happening:
DUKAT: Commander, one thing does puzzle me. Surely the Central Command was informed of my kidnapping.
SISKO: They learned about it almost as soon as it happened.
DUKAT: Then why was I rescued by you? Why wasn't the station surrounded by Cardassian ships demanding my release?
SISKO: We did receive a visit from Legate Parn.
DUKAT: Ah. I'm sure he made some rather ugly threats on my behalf.
SISKO: He said that you were the one responsible for smuggling weapons into the Demilitarised zone, that if the Maquis did not execute you, then the Central Command would. After a comforting trial, I'm sure.
DUKAT: It seems my relationship with the Central Command has somewhat deteriorated. I knew this was inevitable the moment we withdrew from Bajor.
SISKO: Are you saying they blame you for the withdrawal?
DUKAT: Ha. There are those who believe I should have killed every last Bajoran while I had the chance. Oh well, it's too late for that, I'm afraid. Commander, it seems I was mistaken
SISKO: Mistaken about the arms shipment?
DUKAT: It appears I was misinformed. I'm beginning to believe the Central Command is indeed smuggling weapons into the Demilitarised zone after all.
SISKO: Then you really didn't know, did you?
DUKAT: No. They never bothered to tell me. If I help you stop the smuggling, will you help me stop the Maquis?
SISKO: They learned about it almost as soon as it happened.
DUKAT: Then why was I rescued by you? Why wasn't the station surrounded by Cardassian ships demanding my release?
SISKO: We did receive a visit from Legate Parn.
DUKAT: Ah. I'm sure he made some rather ugly threats on my behalf.
SISKO: He said that you were the one responsible for smuggling weapons into the Demilitarised zone, that if the Maquis did not execute you, then the Central Command would. After a comforting trial, I'm sure.
DUKAT: It seems my relationship with the Central Command has somewhat deteriorated. I knew this was inevitable the moment we withdrew from Bajor.
SISKO: Are you saying they blame you for the withdrawal?
DUKAT: Ha. There are those who believe I should have killed every last Bajoran while I had the chance. Oh well, it's too late for that, I'm afraid. Commander, it seems I was mistaken
SISKO: Mistaken about the arms shipment?
DUKAT: It appears I was misinformed. I'm beginning to believe the Central Command is indeed smuggling weapons into the Demilitarised zone after all.
SISKO: Then you really didn't know, did you?
DUKAT: No. They never bothered to tell me. If I help you stop the smuggling, will you help me stop the Maquis?
The crew of DS9 then obtains empirical confirmation when they intercept a ship that had been hired by the Cardassians to smuggle weapons to their settlers in the DMZ:
DROFO [on monitor]: I am Drofo Awa, Hetman of this vessel. What do you want from us?
SISKO: I'm Commander Benjamin Sisko of the United Federation of Planets. We believe you're carrying Cardassian weapons to their colonies in the Demilitarised zone.
DROFO [on monitor]: Well then you believe wrong, Commander. My ship is carrying five kilotons of Regreein wheat husks, nothing more.
SISKO: Five kilotons. That's a lot of wheat husks. With your permission I'd like to come aboard and see what that looks like.
DROFO [on monitor]: Permission denied. And if there's any attempt to board my vessel, I will consider it an act of piracy. Is that clear?
SISKO: Call it anything you like, but you're not going anywhere until we search your ship.
DROFO [on monitor]: In that case, Commander
DUKAT: In that case, you will do exactly as you're told. You will allow us free access to your ship, so that we can verify that you are indeed carrying Cardassian weapons into the Demilitarised zone. You will then follow us back to Deep Space Nine, where your cargo will be confiscated and you will make a full confession detailing everything you know about the smuggling of weapons into the Demilitarised zone. Then you will then sign that confession, after which you and your ship will be allowed on your way. Is that clear?
DROFO [on monitor]: I don't understand. You're a Cardassian.
DUKAT: I'm not just any Cardassian. I'm Gul Dukat, Commander of the Second Order. You have fifteen seconds to lower your shields or we'll destroy your ship.
DROFO [on monitor]: No, wait!
DUKAT: Ten seconds.
DROFO [on monitor]: It's not that simple.
DUKAT: Seven seconds.
DROFO [on monitor]: I've already been paid!
DUKAT: Four seconds.
DROFO [on monitor]: Stop counting! Stop counting.
O'BRIEN: He's lowering his shields.
DROFO [on monitor]: I'll await your arrival, Commander.
(transmission ends)
DUKAT: I think you can handle it from here.
SISKO: I'm Commander Benjamin Sisko of the United Federation of Planets. We believe you're carrying Cardassian weapons to their colonies in the Demilitarised zone.
DROFO [on monitor]: Well then you believe wrong, Commander. My ship is carrying five kilotons of Regreein wheat husks, nothing more.
SISKO: Five kilotons. That's a lot of wheat husks. With your permission I'd like to come aboard and see what that looks like.
DROFO [on monitor]: Permission denied. And if there's any attempt to board my vessel, I will consider it an act of piracy. Is that clear?
SISKO: Call it anything you like, but you're not going anywhere until we search your ship.
DROFO [on monitor]: In that case, Commander
DUKAT: In that case, you will do exactly as you're told. You will allow us free access to your ship, so that we can verify that you are indeed carrying Cardassian weapons into the Demilitarised zone. You will then follow us back to Deep Space Nine, where your cargo will be confiscated and you will make a full confession detailing everything you know about the smuggling of weapons into the Demilitarised zone. Then you will then sign that confession, after which you and your ship will be allowed on your way. Is that clear?
DROFO [on monitor]: I don't understand. You're a Cardassian.
DUKAT: I'm not just any Cardassian. I'm Gul Dukat, Commander of the Second Order. You have fifteen seconds to lower your shields or we'll destroy your ship.
DROFO [on monitor]: No, wait!
DUKAT: Ten seconds.
DROFO [on monitor]: It's not that simple.
DUKAT: Seven seconds.
DROFO [on monitor]: I've already been paid!
DUKAT: Four seconds.
DROFO [on monitor]: Stop counting! Stop counting.
O'BRIEN: He's lowering his shields.
DROFO [on monitor]: I'll await your arrival, Commander.
(transmission ends)
DUKAT: I think you can handle it from here.
The Central Command was arming their militias.
That's not the question. The question is whether or not they were the aggressors. They were not, and the entire anti-Maquis argument being presented here relies on a denial of the canonical facts that are clearly established.
Of course it doesn't apply to the question of whether the Maquis were justified in using force. It applies to the assertion that the Federation did not have a legal obligation to protect its colonists. The idea that the Federation somehow did not have such an obligation because its citizens lawfully settled one of its own planets is absurd.
From the same episode:
HUDSON: Enforcing the laws? The Cardassian authorities were part of a mob that stoned two colonists on the streets of Ropal City three days ago.
SISKO: That's something the Federation can take up with the Cardassians at the highest level.
HUDSON: Well that will help a lot. The word is the Cardassian High Command is arming their colonists to the teeth.
SISKO: You really think they'd risk sending weapons into the Demilitarised zone and breaking the treaty?
HUDSON: I think they'll find a way to do it that's not so obvious.
SISKO: That's something the Federation can take up with the Cardassians at the highest level.
HUDSON: Well that will help a lot. The word is the Cardassian High Command is arming their colonists to the teeth.
SISKO: You really think they'd risk sending weapons into the Demilitarised zone and breaking the treaty?
HUDSON: I think they'll find a way to do it that's not so obvious.
Bold added.
I don't know how you could think lines like this:
"Not a day goes when there's not some random act of violence against our people. Every Federation colonist knows you do not go out alone at night. Can you imagine living in that kind of fear?"
and
"Enforcing the laws? The Cardassian authorities were part of a mob that stoned two colonists on the streets of Ropal City three days ago."
could refer to anything other than killings. That level of violence in real life always causes deaths.
Violence on the scale Hudson describes cannot possibly not have resulted in deaths. And the act of inflicting large-scale violence on Federation settlers inherently means the Cardassians were the aggressors, not the Maquis.
When Hudson made that statement to Sisko, it was when he made his surprise visit to the colonies. If he really was all about stopping those arms shipments, and therefore a big part of the problem, why didn't Hudson tell Sisko about it while he was on DS9? At that point, Sisko would certainly have used his resources to help Hudson prove it because he had his entire crew right there to help. And to assure fewer attacks or casualties, time was an issue. Instead, he never said a word to Sisko until much later... after Samuels' confession and Sisko monitoring the attack on the way over there.
Serious question: if you were in Hudson's position, and you had a longtime friend who was in command of a station with a lot of resources that would help to prove your claims, wouldn't that be the first thing you try to ask for assistance with?
The Maquis didn't want peace. They wanted vengeance. Sisko called him out on it, and Hudson said, "I prefer to call it... retaliation."
And all the 'evidence' we hear is from Hudson, who is not impartial and could very well have exaggerated things.
And from your own post...
"could refer to anything other than killings."
Exactly right... it could be anything but a killing. In that era, you really think being 'stoned to death' occurs? If it was, Hudson's dialogue would have been 'stoned to death'.
The Maquis wanted to keep the violence going. They were locked in on that path and did not care about anything else.
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So what steps did the colonists take to make their case? Did they tell the Federation about the attacks on people? About the Cardassian arms shipments? Or Hudson himself... he had the perfect opportunity while on board Deep Space Nine. But no, not a word.
Again, you can't blame the Federation for not doing something about a situation if they aren't even informed of it. And nowhere does it state the Federation was actually made aware of these situations.