Earliest divergence of Trek from "our" reality??

[FordSVT]

What's the earliest point in time we can definitely say that "our" universe splits from the universe Trek takes place in?

I'd like to try and stay away from minutiae like "There's no record of Sam Clemens meeting Guinan!" and "There was no such person as Edith Keeler" and focus more on major historical events. Obviously, we had no Eugenics War in the 90s, for instance. And things undone by time travel don't count either.

Off the top of my head, all I can come up with was the launch of the orbital nuclear platform in "Assignment Earth" which took place in 1968. It seems like everything that took place in the Trek universe up until then was pretty much the same. This also coincides with the idea that GR couldn't see the future.

Am I wrong?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Uh, that no one will ever, ever dress like that.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

The earliest change is the Big Bang itself. One can reasonably assume USS Voyager was not present in real life.

As for the earliest major change, anything associated with Star Trek is immediately altered. Popular science fiction as a whole would be far different, as would any technologies such as cell phones inspired in whole, or in part, by Star Trek. The existence of Henry Starling is also a pretty major divergence.

 

[Hermiod]

^Starling was going to be my suggestion. I can't say my opinion is canon or anything like that, but after his appearance I felt that his influence on human technology was an obvious point of divergence.

If we assume that his improved computer technology, which was apparently superior to the computers we were supposed to have in the mid-nineties, then we might also assume that more powerful computers assisted in the more rapid development of other technologies - possibly even eugenics ? You can see where I'm going with this.

 

[erastus25]

I remember watching A Piece of the Action in the early '90s and hoping someone would publish a book with the title from the episode so that I could continue to imagine ST could become real. When that didn't happen I realized the ST universe had officially diverged from ours.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^Starling was going to be my suggestion. I can't say my opinion is canon or anything like that, but after his appearance I felt that his influence on human technology was an obvious point of divergence.

If we assume that his improved computer technology, which was apparently superior to the computers we were supposed to have in the mid-nineties, then we might also assume that more powerful computers assisted in the more rapid development of other technologies - possibly even eugenics ? You can see where I'm going with this.

I think Starling's appearance is the tipping point. He is responsible, in some way, for most of the Federation's technology (Janeway even points this out when she is skulking through his offices). And yeah, he might have had his hand in the genetic engineering responsible for Khan and company.

 

[Dayton3]

I disagree with "Assignment: Earth".

In the Trek reality, the explosion of the American nuclear weapons platform 103 miles above central Asia led to a new treaty banning such weapons.

In our reality, a treaty was signed in the late 1960s banning such weapons.

So basically, regarding this there was little change except for the drama.

 

[erastus25]

^Starling was going to be my suggestion. I can't say my opinion is canon or anything like that, but after his appearance I felt that his influence on human technology was an obvious point of divergence.

If we assume that his improved computer technology, which was apparently superior to the computers we were supposed to have in the mid-nineties, then we might also assume that more powerful computers assisted in the more rapid development of other technologies - possibly even eugenics ? You can see where I'm going with this.

I think Starling's appearance is the tipping point. He is responsible, in some way, for most of the Federation's technology (Janeway even points this out when she is skulking through his offices). And yeah, he might have had his hand in the genetic engineering responsible for Khan and company.

We know that he didn't have anything to do with transparent aluminum though. I could also see that being the tipping point as Scotty (presumably) had to teach them some pretty sophisticated chemistry to make that possible.

 

[N-121973]

I disagree with "Assignment: Earth".

In the Trek reality, the explosion of the American nuclear weapons platform 103 miles above central Asia led to a new treaty banning such weapons.

In our reality, a treaty was signed in the late 1960s banning such weapons.

So basically, regarding this there was little change except for the drama.

The treaty you speak of, Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies in the real world was signed in 1967, coming into force on 10 October that year whilst the episode was set in 1968. Thus far 98 are signatories with 27 more yet to ratify. It helped to put the kaibosh on the proposed Orion nuclear-powered spaceships Freeman Dyson and others devised.

 

[Shieldsdown]

In 1986, two Humpback Whales continued swimming aimlessly around the Pacific Ocean, instead of being transported to chat to the Probe.

Regards

 

[MarianLH]

I reject the whole premise of the thread. You'll never find any record of the murders depicted in Law & order or CSI in the real NYPD's files, that doesn't mean they're set in an alternate universe.

The nuclear platform? Hushed up. The Eugenics Wars? Greg Cox handled that to my satisfaction. Ad infinitum.


Marian

 

[Green Shirt]

When Q told Picard in AGT that humanity began in a pool of goo. Then again, he was probably just screwing with Picard, as usual.

 

[Hermiod]

^Starling was going to be my suggestion. I can't say my opinion is canon or anything like that, but after his appearance I felt that his influence on human technology was an obvious point of divergence.

If we assume that his improved computer technology, which was apparently superior to the computers we were supposed to have in the mid-nineties, then we might also assume that more powerful computers assisted in the more rapid development of other technologies - possibly even eugenics ? You can see where I'm going with this.

I think Starling's appearance is the tipping point. He is responsible, in some way, for most of the Federation's technology (Janeway even points this out when she is skulking through his offices). And yeah, he might have had his hand in the genetic engineering responsible for Khan and company.

Not necessarily a hand, as such, but more powerful computers could have made the work easier.

And no, he's not responsible for the development of transparent aluminum in the 80's. Though again, his processors (assuming Apple decided to use them in their Macs ) might have made doing development work a lot easier.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I reject the whole premise of the thread. You'll never find any record of the murders depicted in Law & order or CSI in the real NYPD's files, that doesn't mean they're set in an alternate universe.

The nuclear platform? Hushed up. The Eugenics Wars? Greg Cox handled that to my satisfaction. Ad infinitum.

So how would you explain the existence of fictional Trek in a universe where it really happened?

(And also the existence of a 24th-century Starfleet Chief of Staff named Gene Roddenberry. Look it up!)

 

[Kryton]

In 1986, two Humpback Whales continued swimming aimlessly around the Pacific Ocean, instead of being transported to chat to the Probe.

Regards

And all they basically said was "we're cool...now fuck off!"

 

[Hermiod]

(And also the existence of a 24th-century Starfleet Chief of Staff named Gene Roddenberry. Look it up!)

Don't go by Okudagrams. According to an Okudagram, Voyager lost crewmembers named Commander J. Bartlett, Lt. Cmdr L. McGarry, Lt. Cmdr T. Ziegler, Lt. J. Lyman, Lt. S. Seaborn, Ensign Claudia J. Cregg and Ensign Charles Young at some point prior to "Imperfection".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In 1986, two Humpback Whales continued swimming aimlessly around the Pacific Ocean, instead of being transported to chat to the Probe.

Regards

And all they basically said was "we're cool...now fuck off!"

Fun fact: The whalespeak heard in the film was originally going to have English subtitles. The studio wanted them, but Nimoy objected. The subtitles were removed after test audiences indicated they didn't like them.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

In 1986, two Humpback Whales continued swimming aimlessly around the Pacific Ocean, instead of being transported to chat to the Probe.

Regards

And all they basically said was "we're cool...now fuck off!"

Fun fact: The whalespeak heard in the film was originally going to have English subtitles. The studio wanted them, but Nimoy objected. The subtitles were removed after test audiences indicated they didn't like them.

I wonder what the subtitles said.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The subtitles were removed after test audiences indicated they didn't like them.

I saw a work print: there were no subtitles in that scene. Although it was mooted by the studio that they may be necessary, I'm sure nobody actually wrote any for a test audience to reject.

 

[Kryton]

I'm sticking with my own interpretation for now.