The Jihad's going to be stymied at birth if the Guild refuses to transport the Fremen warriors anywhere. Blackmailing them by threatening to cut off their access to spice and thereby throttling their income likely does the trick.
Poll Dune Part 2 (2024) Spoiler/Rating Thread
- Thread starter wayoung
- Start date
Yup. Which is how the book ends. Paul threatens to destroy the spice via the water of death (changed to nukes in the book, which is a change I totally get to simplify things for audiences) and the Guild surrenders to him.
As Wayoung clarifies, Asbo's point makes sense FOR THE BOOK. Not the novel. And there in lies the rub...
I think it's very important that people that love the book realize that the movie makes complete sense IN ITS OWN NARRATIVE. Because the entire Guild was not mentioned, or hardly, within the narrative of the movie the entire ending makes sense. I explained some of the things like that to my friend I saw it with, including how the movie doesn't go as deep into the entire Kwisatz Haderach as the novel obviously those. She has not read the novel but has seen both movies. She thought it was neat, how it works in the novel, but didn't feel that the way the movie treated it made less sense.
Great discussion - The problem for book readers is that our minds are filling in things - sometimes differently to the film.
The last few comments have caused me to check the scripts and ask a question - why is spice important in the two films and ignoring the books entirely?
The last few comments have caused me to check the scripts and ask a question - why is spice important in the two films and ignoring the books entirely?
And that is probably the biggest issue I could think of when it comes to the movies.
I explained to my friend what spice does, and how Paul being able to destroy thus control it is so important. How the 1984 Dune and miniseries went to explain quite visually how Navigators make FTL possible. Now, I think a scene like that in this take on Dune does not work. But I do agree that adressing that would have been helpful, although it would need a lot of explaining and slow the pace. So I understand that just accepting that it is important is good enough.
I'm simple that way.
Entirely true in my case. The few big changes I noticed; the small details I'm remembering from the novel.
It's explained very early on to Paul by that Wikipedia entry type thing he was listening to.
It doesn't really matter to the story anyway. Spice is just important and just a stand in precious material that could be oil, minerals, water or the million other resources humans have fought over in real life.
In other news I'm just out of the cinema and loved the movie. I've become very picky with movies in my dawning middle age so it's been such a joy to be blown away like I was a child again.
Yup.
It doesn't need much more as the fight to control it shows its importance at a practical level.
It being a secret in the book is important only in that it explains why no one did what Paul does before him. If the Harkonnens knew they had the Guild under their thumb, they'd have exploited it.
In the movie, to simplify things, it's one of the things they decided was easier just to reveal right away as an explanation for the spices importance instead of it being for rich people to extend their life considerably. Then just ignore why the Harkonnens or anyone else never took advantage.
Again, not the choice I would have made, probably my least liked decision in the film. But I get the reasoning. It's not worth having a stink over.
Kind of a quick post before I head out for the afternoon, I want to express positivity about it instead of getting bogged down in my nitpicks about stuff that I totally understand and think mostly work vs the choice I would have made instead. Because I very much liked this movie and don't want to come off as being overly critical. Plus I want to watch it at least a second time in case choices I didn't like as much work better for me now that I know they are there then as a surprise.
Some changes I really liked:
- Alia, despite the timeline issue it creates. I thought it was a fantastic way to handle her
- The emphasis on the war before Paul takes Arrakis. When this movie was first being talked about there were rumours this section would be an HBO limited series between movies (back when The Dark Tower was looking at doing the same thing). Villeneuve showing as much of this as he did, which is not in the books at all, helped show Paul's rose among the Fremen. Without a miniseries about it, it was done as well as could be expected in the timeline
- Paul's confrontation with the Naibs, moving it from Messiah to this movie. It will be missed on Messiah, unless the plan is to do it again as a deliberate throwback to this moment, which would work well. Chalamet kills it.
- The division among the Fremen - believers and non-belivers. We know non believers exist in the book. They're always challenging Paul to single combat. But we only actually hear of the one Chani kills. Nice to see them as more of a faction here.
In the movie, to simplify things, it's one of the things they decided was easier just to reveal right away as an explanation for the spices importance instead of it being for rich people to extend their life considerably. Then just ignore why the Harkonnens or anyone else never took advantage.
Again, not the choice I would have made, probably my least liked decision in the film. But I get the reasoning. It's not worth having a stink over.
Kind of a quick post before I head out for the afternoon, I want to express positivity about it instead of getting bogged down in my nitpicks about stuff that I totally understand and think mostly work vs the choice I would have made instead. Because I very much liked this movie and don't want to come off as being overly critical. Plus I want to watch it at least a second time in case choices I didn't like as much work better for me now that I know they are there then as a surprise.
Some changes I really liked:
- Alia, despite the timeline issue it creates. I thought it was a fantastic way to handle her
- The emphasis on the war before Paul takes Arrakis. When this movie was first being talked about there were rumours this section would be an HBO limited series between movies (back when The Dark Tower was looking at doing the same thing). Villeneuve showing as much of this as he did, which is not in the books at all, helped show Paul's rose among the Fremen. Without a miniseries about it, it was done as well as could be expected in the timeline
- Paul's confrontation with the Naibs, moving it from Messiah to this movie. It will be missed on Messiah, unless the plan is to do it again as a deliberate throwback to this moment, which would work well. Chalamet kills it.
- The division among the Fremen - believers and non-belivers. We know non believers exist in the book. They're always challenging Paul to single combat. But we only actually hear of the one Chani kills. Nice to see them as more of a faction here.
looking at the schedule I cannot see anything else out this year I would make a cinema trip for - maybe Gladiator 2…
Well, the book explains how Paul could do it by killing the entire Sandworm life cycle through drowning of Sandtrouts. This crucial piece of information was known only to Fremen, which is why no one ever considered it. I'm not even sure it was known that the Sandworms actually produce the Spice.
It's just easier for the general audience to correlate atomic weapons ( which everyone knows about) with mass scale destruction. Careful and thinking viewers however might stumble upon a new plothole that is opened up by this version - if it's that easy to destroy all Spice why did the Harkonnen never attempt it? About the only in-movie explanation i can think of is that Baron Harkonnen might deem it too risky and too high stakes. Much safer to get filthy rich and enjoy the power it brings.
The Baron would have no reason to risk it. It would trap him on Dune or on his dump of a world.
Paul would be happy enough to trap himself on Dune (or it would look that way to the people he is trying to bluff. In reality he would not irradiate the area)
The Baron could have done the same as Paul and just substituted Fremen military power with money and diplomacy ( well, Harkonnen diplomacy). Within the movie universe i could see that happening if he realized he could destroy the spice production and have this ace up his sleeve. It would have been a massive risk but the gain would also be massive - Emperor Harkonnen.
However it's of course hypothetical.
What i really loved was how focused Villeneuve was on the religious fundamentalism core of Herbert's work and the massive force it can exert on people's lives, it came through well in the movie in the figure of Stilgar. Starting out as a proud leader of his people, independent and powerful but little by little consumed by his faith until he became a fundamentalist.
It came through a bit better in the book when Paul realizes he lost a valued friend and gained a follower but the movie does the job well enough to isolate Paul from those closest to him.
I really enjoyed the emphasis on the Yin-Yang of the Bene Gesserit and the Guild in the '84 version, as well as the clear way the importance and effects of the Spice were explained. It also leads you to believe that as the Kwizatz Haderach, Muad'Dib was capable of folding space himself, because he could see all potential lines of outcome. I missed all these facets in the DV version, but the way he shaped his narrative, it worked just fine with next to no mention of the Guild. Another facet of the universe that DV practically ignored were the Mentats.
What I really miss from the '84 version is the casting and the music. The latter practically deserves a thread of its own. Sian Phillips as Mohiam will never be topped in any movie iteration of Dune, or Francesca Anna as Jessica.
What I really miss from the '84 version is the casting and the music. The latter practically deserves a thread of its own. Sian Phillips as Mohiam will never be topped in any movie iteration of Dune, or Francesca Anna as Jessica.
Does anyone have a clear explanation of the 'Black Sun' mentioned for Geidi Prime and all the weird coloring? I don't remember anything like that from the book although it has been several years since I read it last.
It's not in the books. Villeneuve wanted to add a cool alien world. And it was impressive. One of my friends (doesn't know the book) couldn't get over it.
It was kind of cool, but unless it was a figure of speech, the idea of 'a black sun' was a bit of nonsense. I could definitely see different star types and atmospheric compositions making for interesting atmospheric lighting effects.
Good movie.. but like reading a book before going to see a movie adaptation .. you miss what they cut out.. which is okay, but them changing stuff isn't.
No Leto
No Allia
Boo.
They did do great on Pauls.. well.. Cowardace .. he knew if he went south billions would die. But he also knew what he had to do to save humanity and he choked. He wanted freedom but fate had a big F U to that.
And if they wanted to show an alien planet could have made Gedi Prime orbit a red dwarf sun. Show a tidal locked planet with mostly infared animals and plants.
No Leto
No Allia
Boo.
They did do great on Pauls.. well.. Cowardace .. he knew if he went south billions would die. But he also knew what he had to do to save humanity and he choked. He wanted freedom but fate had a big F U to that.
And if they wanted to show an alien planet could have made Gedi Prime orbit a red dwarf sun. Show a tidal locked planet with mostly infared animals and plants.
The spice is flowing
$81.5 million opening weekend, nearly double what part 1 made when it opened.
https://www.tmz.com/2024/03/03/dune...on-opening-weekend-timothee-chalamet-zendaya/
$81.5 million opening weekend, nearly double what part 1 made when it opened.
https://www.tmz.com/2024/03/03/dune...on-opening-weekend-timothee-chalamet-zendaya/