Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)

[wayoung]

Not really relevant, but reading that part reminded me that Leto II was played by a pre-fame James McAvoy. I used to get a kick back when he was first getting attention in big Hollywood roles, and I'd act like a hipster and say things like "I was aware of him long before the rest of you." Actually, even some of my friends who are into Dune didn't recognize him right away. I remember seeing a commercial for one of the first movies he had a lead role in and saying "remember him when he was in Dune?" and my friend, shocked asked "he was in Dune?"

While I get you're referring to how much Paul matures over the course of events, just how much actual time does the book cover? It's something like two or three years, isn't it? Meaning Paul's around eighteen by the end anyway. And with Dune Messiah takes place a decade later, yeah, probably best to go with an actor in his early twenties in the first movie.

The first novel covers around three years. Three years living in the harshest environment survivable by man while leading a death cult in a guerrilla war against a tyrannical empire. Which, conceivably, would age you fairly quickly. But he's also constantly ingesting vast amounts of an anti ageing drug. So how "old" he may look is really up for interpretation.

The sci - fi channel really thought they scored big with the CoD cast. Most of them were supposed to be on the edge of stardom - remember, CoD was also supposed to be a backdoor pilot for an ongoing Dune TV show, like BSG and many other sci - fi channel miniseries. There were a couple different possible series ideas, I believe the one most likely to go ahead was going to be focusing on Idaho. Then it died. I think that was around the time sci - fi management changed, bringing on their rebranding and move away from space based TV, with BSG being the one exception.

Of course none of them ever ended up having much of a career except McAvoy. Everytime he says something in that lilting voice he uses when he monologues I can't help but see him as Leto.

IMO Newman nailed Muad'dib as well as McAvoy got Leto (if not better). His Paul sucked, but that is Harrison's fault, not Newman's.

I would like to see Asa Butterfield as Paul.

He just doesn't have the gravitas. I don't see millions of desert warriors (and trillions of others) worshipping him as a living God while he makes drums out of his enemies skins.

Besides, he already got to play a teenage sci fi icon. Give someone else a chance.

Edit: Out of curiosity I went back to old news reports and found that there were two ongoing series plans, one that would somehow stick close to the original novels and one that would follow Duncan Idaho as the main character. As I had above, the Idaho centered production was favoured. There were also plans for an animated Dune that never got beyond the discussion stage. Then Berg's project was greenlit in 06.

 

[Set Harth]

Of course none of them ever ended up having much of a career except McAvoy. Everytime he says something in that lilting voice he uses when he monologues I can't help but see him as Leto.

It's especially hard not to think of Children of Dune when you're watching the beginning of the movie X-Men: Apocalypse where there's a shot of rolling sand dunes coupled with a McAvoy voiceover in which he says "Give them the power of prophecy, and they may live in fear of the future."

 

[Reverend]

While I get you're referring to how much Paul matures over the course of events, just how much actual time does the book cover? It's something like two or three years, isn't it? Meaning Paul's around eighteen by the end anyway. And with Dune Messiah takes place a decade later, yeah, probably best to go with an actor in his early twenties in the first movie.

Yeah, all I meant was that from a practical standpoint, it's easier to cast a bit older and have them play younger in the beginning than it is to cast young and try to get them to play older. Plus, the inherent problems with casting too young an actress as a love interest and eventual mother.

Mind you if they went with my preferred format of turning the first book into three 8-13 episode season a la Game of Thrones then they could cast Paul and Chani as 16 year olds as by the third season they'd be about 18, which would make it a bit more plausible. The time jump to 'Dune Messiah' might still be a bit tricky though as it hinges on the actors' ability to sell world weary maturity. By the time you're into 'Children of Dune' and the blind preacher, you're going to have to rely the actor playing Paul to be able to really sell it and act through the inevitable make-up prosthetics. Doubly difficult since he'd be acting in scenes with someone playing his grown son, despite only being at most three or four years his junior.

Recasting is certainly an option, but it's a bit dicey from a TV show's perspective. I mean imagine if GoT had jumped forward a decade and they just recast Aria. Fans would desert in droves! Besides, if you don't recognise Paul in the The Preacher the character looses the much needed weight and impact.

 

[wayoung]

Oscar's tonight. Wonder if Villeneuve will win. When was the last time a sci fi film / director won? Outside of Jackson's winter for the LOTR trilogy, if you count that as fantasy.

Edit: weird, I didn't get notifications for the last couple posts here.

@Reverend part of the poi t of the Preacher though is that he's changed so much physically nobody is sure it's the same person, not until Alia is up close ajd personal with him.

I remember hosting a chat Q&A for the series with some CoD crew members and one of the big questions from fans was "How recognizable is Paul?" because fans wanted the "is he or isn't he?" mystery maintained for newcomers to the series.

Not that I'm pro recasting, I'm not, I just don't think recognizability is a major factor for CoD.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, all I meant was that from a practical standpoint, it's easier to cast a bit older and have them play younger in the beginning than it is to cast young and try to get them to play older. Plus, the inherent problems with casting too young an actress as a love interest and eventual mother.

Mind you if they went with my preferred format of turning the first book into three 8-13 episode season a la Game of Thrones then they could cast Paul and Chani as 16 year olds as by the third season they'd be about 18, which would make it a bit more plausible. The time jump to 'Dune Messiah' might still be a bit tricky though as it hinges on the actors' ability to sell world weary maturity. By the time you're into 'Children of Dune' and the blind preacher, you're going to have to rely the actor playing Paul to be able to really sell it and act through the inevitable make-up prosthetics. Doubly difficult since he'd be acting in scenes with someone playing his grown son, despite only being at most three or four years his junior.

Recasting is certainly an option, but it's a bit dicey from a TV show's perspective. I mean imagine if GoT had jumped forward a decade and they just recast Aria. Fans would desert in droves! Besides, if you don't recognise Paul in the The Preacher the character looses the much needed weight and impact.

It was a bit of a struggle with Alec Newman in the Sci-Fi miniseries at first, at least for me. He didn't capture young very well, but he presented a very solid more mature Paul as the series moved on.

I highly doubt it would happen, but it would be interesting if Newman played anther character in the new series, like Leto or Stilgar, but that might be too distracting. Casting will be critical in setting up this world.

 

[wayoung]

^The problems with Newman as Young Paul were all due to Harrison. He portrayed the character as a spiked rich kid because that's how Harrison wanted him portrayed, to increase the contrast between Paul and the begging and Paul at the end. It was a conscious choice. A bad choice, imo, but purposeful by the director. Newman got a lack of flack for it, but it really wasn't his fault.

I truly enjoyed his Muad'dib in part three of the first mini and in CoD. Paul isn't a hero. He's a tragic character, and Newman nailed it.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Oscar's tonight. Wonder if Villeneuve will win. When was the last time a sci fi film / director won? Outside of Jackson's winter for the LOTR trilogy, if you count that as fantasy.

A science-fiction film has never won for best director so it would be one hell of an achievement.

And I'm really, really hoping it happens.

 

[wayoung]

A science-fiction film has never won for best director so it would be one hell of an achievement.

And I'm really, really hoping it happens.

Thanks. I'm a huge movie fan but hate the Oscars and the rest of Hollywoods masturbatory awards so don't know much about them other than they clog my twitter feed every year.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

...and he lost.

 

[wayoung]

Oh well. Just means Dune can be the first ever best director for sci fi win.

 

[wayoung]

Anyone have any little touches they'd like to see in the movie / series? Things that don't impact the plot but would improve the product?

I'd like to see a Harkonnen soldier with a house sigil on his back captured and some fremen approaching with a knife and later you see a drum being played with that sigil right on top, showing how Muad'dib made drums from the skins of his enemies.

The ferociousness of the firemen are always underplayed in the past. This would help show that they aren't the good guys - no one is.

 

[Kane2026]

He Weyoung I like your idea of the fremen showing their ferociousness. In the book, the first part, I believe a fremen pilot plunges and aircraft into a troop transport killing Harkonnen and Sardaukar. I would like to see that. In fact, events surrounding the fall of house Atreides have always been somewhat murky.
Furthermore we read a lot of the inner thoughts of Baron Harkonnen, I would like to see that as well.

 

[Reverend]

@Reverend part of the poi t of the Preacher though is that he's changed so much physically nobody is sure it's the same person, not until Alia is up close ajd personal with him.

I remember hosting a chat Q&A for the series with some CoD crew members and one of the big questions from fans was "How recognizable is Paul?" because fans wanted the "is he or isn't he?" mystery maintained for newcomers to the series.

Not that I'm pro recasting, I'm not, I just don't think recognizability is a major factor for CoD.

Yes and no. Yes it's important that it works best if it isn't instantly obvious who the blind preacher is, but at the same time it's important for the audience to share the moment of recognition. That would be extremely difficult to do with a different actor, even if there's a good resemblance.

Anyone have any little touches they'd like to see in the movie / series? Things that don't impact the plot but would improve the product?

I'd like to see a Harkonnen soldier with a house sigil on his back captured and some fremen approaching with a knife and later you see a drum being played with that sigil right on top, showing how Muad'dib made drums from the skins of his enemies.

The ferociousness of the firemen are always underplayed in the past. This would help show that they aren't the good guys - no one is.

Was that actually a thing that was supposed to have happened, or some exaggerated story? I forget.

Personally, I'd like it if they found a way to spend some time showing just how good the Sardaukar are compared to the Harkonnen and Atredies forces. It never seemed to come across very well the the movie or mini-series and in the books, it was a fairly vital component in selling the idea that the Fremen are the most efficient and effective fighters in the known universe.

 

[wayoung]

We don't see it in novel, Irulan writes it in her histories. It seems like a Fremen thing to do.

He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph, he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice, then? Remember, we speak now of the Muad'Dib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins, the Muad'Dib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely: "I am the Kwisatz Haderach. That is reason enough."

 

[fireproof78]

That's an interesting anecdote, but the context could indicate both ways, of either being history or legend. Irulan writes it as "we speak now..." which can be interpreted as being more of the legends around Muad'Dib rather than actual events.

While I can see it as being something the Fremen might do, I'm not certain it's meant to be taken literally.

 

[psCargile]

Now that we have taken the water from our enemies, what to do with all this dried skin?

 

[wayoung]

That's an interesting anecdote, but the context could indicate both ways, of either being history or legend. Irulan writes it as "we speak now..." which can be interpreted as being more of the legends around Muad'Dib rather than actual events.

While I can see it as being something the Fremen might do, I'm not certain it's meant to be taken literally.

Sure. It could be either way. Didn't say otherwise. To me it fits the character(s) and would be an excellent visual representation of the ferocity involved (show, don't tell) that would work quite well in a movie version, so it's a small thing I'd like to see in the film / series.

Actual middle eastern / Asian casting. The Fremen are descendants of a combined Sunni and Zen people. The middle eastern Sunni angle gets referenced a lot outside of books but very little mention how they're also equally derived from an Asian people. I'd like the Fremen actually to be cast with Arabic, Turkish, Persian, Jewish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese (etc.) actors.

 

[fireproof78]

Now that we have taken the water from our enemies, what to do with all this dried skin?

Nothing goes to waste.

Sure. It could be either way. Didn't say otherwise. To me it fits the character(s) and would be an excellent visual representation of the ferocity involved (show, don't tell) that would work quite well in a movie version, so it's a small thing I'd like to see in the film / series.

I'm not saying you made the argument. I'm musing out loud as to the context of that passge.

Actual middle eastern / Asian casting. The Fremen are descendants of a combined Sunni and Zen people. The middle eastern Sunni angle gets referenced a lot outside of books but very little mention how they're also equally derived from an Asian people. I'd like the Fremen actually to be cast with Arabic, Turkish, Persian, Jewish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese (etc.) actors.

I would like that as well, and would like a more cosmopolitan look to the Great Houses and in Arrakeen.

 

[JD]

It was a bit of a struggle with Alec Newman in the Sci-Fi miniseries at first, at least for me. He didn't capture young very well, but he presented a very solid more mature Paul as the series moved on.

I highly doubt it would happen, but it would be interesting if Newman played anther character in the new series, like Leto or Stilgar, but that might be too distracting. Casting will be critical in setting up this world.

I think it would be a lot more likely that we'd get someone from the movie, like Kyle McLachlan, Dean Stockwell, Patrick Stewart, or Virginia Madsen.

 

[Reverend]

^Kyle McLachlan would be a great and very ironic candidate to play Fenring IMO.

RE: Ethnicities. After 10,000 plus years of space travel and multiple migrations and diasporas, I don't think it's credible that any of the ethnic groups will be recognisable, regardless of their ancestral roots. I certainly doubt many of my ancestors from 8000 BCE looked very much like me at all.

Perhaps it'll be more interesting to switch things up against stereotype rather than reinforcing them. For example, how about casting Pacific Islanders as the Fremen? The Laandsrad nobility should probably all look like they're from the same ethnic group as they are mostly related (such is the nature of an aristocracy.) This wall also help sell the credibility of Jessica & Paul being descended from the Baron and Leto being a cousin(?) of Shaddam.
The way to show some more diversity in the cast would be to have the subjects/servants of Caladan & Giedi Prime each be of particularly distinct groups. Could be a neat way of flagging up Gurney's history if he looks like a Giedi Prime native while Duncan is clearly from Caladan.

Another possibility to do what they did with James Earl Jones in Conan: alter his features somewhat (straight hair and blue eyes) to make it seem like he's from a distinct line (Atlantian in this case) that has no direct modern analogue.

So (for the sake of argument) you could have Giedi Prime natives played by south east Asians with their complexions lightened and their hair dyed red.