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DSC: Bring Back Beams! (BBB) - Return of the ship-mounted phaser beam...

Would you like to see USS Discovery fire a continuous beam?

  • Yes - I love beams

    Votes: 45 77.6%
  • No - I love bolts

    Votes: 13 22.4%

  • Total voters
    58
Discovery is meant to be a science ship, but I get the feeling the show regards it as being just as powerful as any other class, because we see it coming to the aid of a Shepard class, and it engages the Klingon extremist's flagship, which would probably be less advisable for a pure research platform to do.

Well, isn't that more a function of being able to get to those fights than being able to fight them? The hero ship is the only one fast enough to come and help the bushed Gagarin - but tellingly, she loses that fight, apparently only managing to menace a small BoP out of all the Klingon types involved.

The Klingon "flagship" in turn came for the heroes. But a lumbering flying cemetery apparently isn't the most fearsome combat opponent imaginable. Especially if unshielded, lurking behind the false security of a cloak.

I say, let the heroes keep on winning that way, using their smarts (if not always technobabble). Given the frugal VFX so far, it may be we won't see much pew-pew from competing Starfleet ships after all, allowing us to believe in their greater firepower with accompanying beefier looks of death rays.

I hope the VFX folks show more hero ship combat action up close, though, up to and including finally deciding where all those torpedoes are coming from...

The way I've recently chosen to think of alternative weapons, such as laser, ballistic weapons, etc, is that perhaps Starfleet maintains some alternative armories for specialist situations. Maybe weapons lockers onboard a Constitution-class vessel of this time contain something like 10 hand phasers, 10 phaser rifles, a photon-rocket launcher, a photon-grenade launcher, 2 laser pistols, a ballistic weapon, with each used for specialist situations.

...Perhaps this is why the sidearms of the day have three barrels to choose from? A laser barrel makes itself useful when there are alien elevator doors or other armor to be pierced, even if it doesn't shine in combat. The phaser barrel, vice versa.

Phasers eventually come to be seen as the most versatile, as they are the only ones with a stun setting.

Or then the separate stun device, a descendant of the MACO stun batons, is integrated into whatever weapon type is otherwise favored. Hence the third barrel in DSC/"The Cage"... (Or the second one in Kelvin.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
Plus one for beam phases, the TWOK phases were very cool, really gave the feel of a broadside battle between slow, large naval frigates. The pulses do seem a bit Star Wars to me. Imo Enterprise got it right with their phase canons.

Also - bring back dome shields!?
 
I do like bubble shields!

It would also be nice if enemy ships used beams too, some of the best were in "Way of the Warrior", when the Klingon battlecruisers open fire, very dragon-like:

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I have a way of reconciling why bolts in the Kelvin timeline seem so slow. Maybe the speed at which the particle accelerator in a phaser bank accelerates the phaser beam is variable. So a phaser bank can produce slow bolts for less energy, or a high velocity one at near light-speed, which near-instantaneously hits the target. Say that it works something like a railgun with magnetic coils; it can perhaps fire at anything from say 0.015 c to 0.975 c.
 
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Enemies other than Klingons could also well use fireworks of completely different sorts. "Shooting star" bolts swirling and curving their way through space, ST:ID style, perhaps. And wavefronts, "Last Outpost" or "Tin Man" style. Or swarms of projectiles. Or things that are invisible until they go boom close to the hero ship.

Just reserve the "approaching cloud of fiery death" effect for the Romulans. And let some enemies have their beams or bolts, as long as there is at least a bit of variety and innovation.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I do like bubble shields!

It would also be nice if enemy ships used beams too, some of the best were in "Way of the Warrior", when the Klingon battlecruisers open fire, very dragon-like:

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UR9eiCi.jpg


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I have a way of reconciling why bolts in the Kelvin timeline seem so slow. Maybe the speed at which the particle accelerator in a phaser bank accelerates the phaser beam is variable. So a phaser bank can produce slow bolts for less energy, or a high velocity one at near light-speed, which near-instantaneously hits the target. Say that it works something like a railgun with magnetic coils; it can perhaps fire at anything from say 0.015 c to 0.975 c.

I just watched Way Of The Warrior the other day. That D7 fires a beam out of the torpedo tube the way the E-E did in Darmok (pre remaster).
 
The TWOK phasers were damn near perfect in my opinion.

They were long and thin and dangerous looking. The sound effect was very non-traditional and made them sound like pure sizzling energy. They basically combined the best elements of a pulse weapon and a pure beam weapon.

Aside from the TOS phasers, I never really liked any of the other depictions. The TNG era phaser beams were all too fat and animated looking. The JJ Phasers are too pew-pew. The Disco Phasers are barely noticeable.

I'm absolutely with you on this point!

The only phaser-look I think is even better than the TWOK one were the blue handphaser effects from TFF and TUC. They seemed dangerous when they cut through the floating klingons. Sadly we never saw the Ent-A fire them off. (In fact, TWOk is actually the only TOS movie where the Enterprise itself fires phasers - everytime else it's just torpedoes. Which is weird - considering how iconic the classic Enterprise shooting phasers-shot is!)
 
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I just watched Way Of The Warrior the other day. That D7 fires a beam out of the torpedo tube the way the E-E did in Darmok (pre remaster).

It's actually unclear if the torpedo tube on Klingon ships is exclusively a torpedo tube, rather than a generic weapons bay, capable of housing either a disruptor or torpedo, depending on refit. For example, in Way of the Warrior, and Redemption, we see Klingon ships firing what looks like a disruptor from there (the IKS Bortas receives a hit from a transparent blast from a Bird-of-Prey's forward weapon). The Vorcha class unofficial schematics always suggested that the main weapon on a Vorcha is a super-heavy disruptor canon of some kind, that we see firing in both beam and ball/pulse form. I would suggest that maybe Klingon ships like the Ktinga have different loadouts.
 
I just watched Way Of The Warrior the other day. That D7 fires a beam out of the torpedo tube the way the E-D did in Darmok (pre remaster).

The same with the D-7 in "Rules of Engagement". And no D-7 in (that is, from) the 24th century fires torps from there, ever.

Seems the Klingons ripped out an outdated weapon and replaced it with something more effective fleetwide. Since no other Klingon ship fires red beams, this might even be a special "bombard" conversion, the weapon being mainly useful in the first wave of attack against a superheavily shielded target such as a starbase. Better expend old rather than new ships in such duty!

Timo Saloniemi
 
It's actually unclear if the torpedo tube on Klingon ships is exclusively a torpedo tube, rather than a generic weapons bay, capable of housing either a disruptor or torpedo, depending on refit. For example, in Way of the Warrior, and Redemption, we see Klingon ships firing what looks like a disruptor from there (the IKS Bortas receives a hit from a transparent blast from a Bird-of-Prey's forward weapon). The Vorcha class unofficial schematics always suggested that the main weapon on a Vorcha is a super-heavy disruptor canon of some kind, that we see firing in both beam and ball/pulse form. I would suggest that maybe Klingon ships like the Ktinga have different loadouts.

The same with the D-7 in "Rules of Engagement". And no D-7 in (that is, from) the 24th century fires torps from there, ever.

Seems the Klingons ripped out an outdated weapon and replaced it with something more effective fleetwide. Since no other Klingon ship fires red beams, this might even be a special "bombard" conversion, the weapon being mainly useful in the first wave of attack against a superheavily shielded target such as a starbase. Better expend old rather than new ships in such duty!

Timo Saloniemi

Both very good explanations and in-universe ways to cover for the somewhat common CGI mistakes we see on Star Trek :lol:

Perhaps the Klingons don't "wait until Tuesday" to upgrade their ships.

I wonder, if they ever got round to remastering DS9, would they fix these?
 
I seriously doubt it - it took them effort to introduce a special look for the D-7 weapons in DS9, so why undo it?

It would be different if they put generic green bolts in that former torpedo hole - that might have been an error in need of fixing. But there's nothing generic or off-the-shelf about the red beams.

Timo Saloniemi
 
One of the biggest problems for a spacecraft is heat management. Heat, contrary to what people might assume, does not dissipate very quickly in space. That is because there is no air, or matter of any kind, to conduct heat away. Pure vacuum contains no medium for convection to take place in; heat can only radiate as pure EM. So, a starship builds up thousands of degree of heat from general operations, such as running a warp drive or firing weapons; hardly anything is lost, only added. Think of how much a PC can heat a room. This effect could cook a crew alive. One way you could deal with it would be to collect the heat in a disposable material, and eject this material (like a liquid, or solid heat-sink) into space. Presumably the Federation has an even more advanced method of managing heat; not generating it in the first place somehow.

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Phasers deal a shit ton of heat damage, like the magneto-hydrodynamic cannons in Mass Effect. In Mass Effect, a molten liquid metal is accelerated to huge speeds by a magnetic cannon, essentially spraying the enemy with a beam of superheated metal. Star Trek also shows this. In Star Trek, we see evidence of entire starships still melting hours after they were hit by Borg weapons at Wolf 359. We also see it during the Battle of Chintoka, where I think a number of ships are seen being slowly vaporised by Cardassian weapons. Science is awesome:

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They may be far more deadly to a starship in heat terms than pure kinetic damage; warping and destroying internal systems that pure kinetic damage may not be able to touch thanks to shock dampening. Think of what would happen to a PC if you aimed a hair-dryer at the motherboard. A phaser might disrupt computer cores via heat damage to their circuitry. I think at some point someone in Star Trek describes how horrific phaser wounds are. We see targets having different layers of tissue being vaporised at different rates during the movies and TNG. Presumably, torpedoes still use concussive, explosive force, albeit of a far higher destructive yield than current weapons. But phasers might primarily be a heat weapon, melting rock, flesh and metal.

TWoK-styled phaser blasts are best, though I do love the phasers used for the Enterprise-D. That whole wrap-around, sling-shotty thing -- what's it all about? Haven't a clue, not a friggin' clue ... but I love it!

I think the moving light was meant to be either an energy charge of some kind moving along a bank of emitters, or an actual physical cannon moving along that bank, and converging on the optimal point to fire, before unleashing it's deadly blast. There was a diagram in the tech manual I think.

Or then the separate stun device, a descendant of the MACO stun batons, is integrated into whatever weapon type is otherwise favored. Hence the third barrel in DSC/"The Cage"... (Or the second one in Kelvin.)

The way that the stun setting supposedly works, at least in some material, is by sending a charge along the stream of particles to stun the enemy's nervous system. So it's almost like a taser, except the conducting material isn't a wire, it's the beam itself. I think I remember another franchise once had a weapon that worked in a similar way; a laser superheated air to the target, creating a path, then an energy charge travelled down it.
 
One of the biggest problems for a spacecraft is heat management.

...And starships seem to have that down pat. When most power is lost, passive cooling quickly makes the inhabited spaces cool in "The Last Outpost", unlike one would expect of a giant Dewar flying through space with some working machinery and people inside.

Whether this is through real world means of transferring heat somewhere, or futuristic heat sinks only made possible by the different physics of the Trek universe, we can't readily tell.

Phasers deal a shit ton of heat damage

Sounds a bit unlikely, as we never observe any. That is, when phasers "vaporise" victims, there is no vapor and no heat damage to the immediate environment. Holes bored by phasers are immediately cool to the touch. And actually heating up an object with a hand phaser takes aeons compared to just "vaporising" it altogether.

The make-disappear effect of a phaser, the one that involves no delivering of heat or liberating said from de-structuring the target, need of course not be the kill mechanism of phasers in starship combat. After all, we can only confirm the absence of heat effects in the hand phaser (or occasionally orbital bombardment phaser) case, and phasers are particularly known for their many settings.

However, hurt starships in situations like those depicted above are generally literally in flames. Something is burning there, and at such low intensity that it may keep burning for hours. Supposedly, air aboard is slowly escaping and enabling the flames, and there might be plenty of it, with compressed reserves and all.

We also see it during the Battle of Chintoka, where I think a number of ships are seen being slowly vaporised by Cardassian weapons.

Hmm. I can't see any spreading destruction there. The phasers (and plasma torpedoes) did their worst, the ship is full of holes, and flames come out of the holes. But eventually the flames will go out, and the same holes will remain.

I think at some point someone in Star Trek describes how horrific phaser wounds are. We see targets having different layers of tissue being vaporised at different rates during the movies and TNG.

But not burned, as far as we can tell. Just maimed.

...By a death ray that seems to be very selective, propagating in a lump of matter it hits, but not jumping to a different sort of matter (which is how Kirk can vaporise enemies without also vaporising the ship or planet they are standing in or on). Heat damage would be hard pressed to behave that way.

The way that the stun setting supposedly works, at least in some material, is by sending a charge along the stream of particles to stun the enemy's nervous system. So it's almost like a taser, except the conducting material isn't a wire, it's the beam itself.

Quite possible. And Trek death rays explicitly deliver physical matter to the target on occasion, say, VOY "Macrocosm". Might be the phaser is just a weaponized transporter, with the same properties of making-disappear, moving-matter, being blocked by shields, and involving phasing.

Then again, perhaps not.

Timo Saloniemi
 
@Timo - We do see the hull vaporising away at Chintoka, if you look closely at the Akira-class, basically that hole gets bigger. Maybe it's plasma torpedoes like you suggest. But it's also possible that maybe hand phasers project some kind of force field meaning only the target receives the heat; that's how I've recently head-canon-ed it.

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There was that example also in TNG of a Varon-T disruptor or something being used on someone.

Edit, here it is:

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Maybe the phaser beam inside an atmosphere travels along a narrow force-field-tunnel, so the only point where the phaser heats anything is at impact, where the tunnel ends. That is how I rationalised the above example of Mirror Archer vaporising his rival.

In truth, it's just budget, but I rationalised it as being such extreme heat that the target continues vaporising (as they tend to refer to the process on screen, such as Chekov in The Undiscovered Country, "why not wapourise it?")
 
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...Again without collateral damage, yes.

The glow associated with phasers should IMHO not be given undue significance, as everything in Trek glows, very much including transporters when they do their own disappearing act.

And containing the heat release won't make the heat disappear, as you correctly remind us. Does the heat politely wait until it has done the damage and only then dives to subspace? Perhaps so. But stuff sprays out when Klingon death rays splatter folks, especially in DSC. Yet the spray does not appear to be particularly hot, either. And usually disappears before hitting anything, or soon thereafter...

Timo Saloniemi
 
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