DS9's rocky start

[RobertScorpio]

My favorite of the TREK shows, not including TOS because it really is from another time, is DS9. Mainly because all of the characters evolved from where they were at the start. I don't think another TREK show, not even TOS, comes close.

But....it wasn't all rosey for me. I remember watching Emissary that first time with my 11 year old niece. She was a big Star Trek fan, she really liked Tasha Yar's kick ass persona on TNG. So I remember watching the Emissary (DS9 pilot) with her at my sister's house.

After it was done, she cried. Why? She felt, and I think rightfully so at the time, that Sisko/Avery Brooks wasn't a good actor. And for the next couple weeks I had to agree with her. Avery just didn't click at the start, at least IMO. He seemed overwhelmed at times.

But he, eventually, nailed the role. And when he shaved his head and got the goatee going, WHAMMO!!!.. he was there.

But yes, DS9's rocky start did make my niece cry, and it worried me as well. But they eventually got it going and it all came out right!!

Rob

 

[WalkinMan]

DS9 definitely got better as time went on. I think that the show finally hit its stride with the introduction of the Dominion and the Federation and Allies' response to that.

 

[RobertScorpio]

DS9 definitely got better as time went on. I think that the show finally hit its stride with the introduction of the Dominion and the Federation and Allies' response to that.

TNG (Season 1 mainly) and Voyager tried to show there was more to Star Trek than just Vulcans-klingons-Romulans, or so that is what GR hinted at, and definately what I heard Jeri Taylor say at a pre-Voyager convention. So they tried to run away from those mythos.

But once I saw the BLOOD OATH, and those returning Klingons, I knew then that his show ,DS9, could really dive into the TREK lore and really do much with establish mythos, while creating new ones with the Founder-Jem'Hedar-Bajorans and Cardassians. That was when, for me, DS9's potential began to ring through!!

Rob

 

[jbake]

Brookes and Visitor did chew up the scenery at the start. I cring everytime, we first see Kira. However gradually they both learnt to "act small" for television, instead instinctively "acting/ projecting out" as stage actors do.


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I remember feeling slightly letdown the first time the first series/season of DS9 aired. Slightly bored. However I watched it again summer07, and really enjoyed.


With the distance of time and now adulthood, I really like the first season. The first season is almost like an ep of TNG, it's so cute. I can see the writers are trying to break away from TNG, and create their own universe and look. However they are still trapped using TNG lighting, cinematography, style.

That searching for their own language, their own identity, straight after TNG. Is what I realise now, was the reason for the somewhat unsure and slowish pace and direction

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Also what I really love about the first season are the long scenes without music, really adds to the sense of being on the cold frontier, and in some sort of dank crime city. The dark lighting in Quark's. The lack of music made the first season seem more gritty, sinister.

But he(Avery Brooks), eventually, nailed the role. And when he shaved his head and got the goatee going, WHAMMO!!!.. he was there.

Rob

I like think of it, that He became Picard with muscles lol. Wonder if that was deliberate. After Avery shaved his head and grew the goatee. Sisko became like alot like Picard...wise, noble, serene. However Sisko also had a muscularity to his approach

my opinion

 

[Ezri]

Think that all the first startings of a new series had problems. Not everyone is going to be happy. The 1st season, it was not that great but it does take time to build all the characters up to a level everyone is in some type of comfort. Just happy with DS9 that only one major character left the show -- Jadzia Dax.

 

[erastus25]

There was a lot of uneven writing in the first couple seasons as well. The "mystery of the week" on the station is only cool so many times. The growing pains were also a result of trying to mix together a collection of characters with dynamics never seen on Star Trek before. The whole idea that Sisko might not want this command, and that Odo is basically a grumpy old man, among other character concepts, were completely new. It naturally took awhile for the producers who were used to the TNG style to adjust.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I liked DS9 from the first episode. But it definitely improved as time went on and it moved away from the TNG formula of stand-alone, enemy-of-the-week, episodic TV.

IMO season 1 is the weakest season, and season 2, while a huge improvement, was the second weakest.

After that it had nowhere to go but up, IMO.

The more it moved away from TNG, the better it got. It got better with the introduction of arc-based storytelling for sure...and it took another huge leap forward when they finally let Avery Brooks take Sisko in the direction he wanted to take him, instead of trying to force him into being the African-American version of Picard. The final thing they did that made the show better was to develop so many of the recurring characters to the extent they did. Dukat, Garak, Damar, Weyoun, Winn, and Martok had a huge hand in making that show what it was. Other recurring characters were also good...but those I listed made HUGE contributions.

Those three things, IMO, made all the difference.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Obviously, Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets were excellent episodes, but I think it wasn't until The Circle trilogy that the series's potential came to light.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I liked DS9 from the first episode. But it definitely improved as time went on and it moved away from the TNG formula of stand-alone, enemy-of-the-week, episodic TV.

IMO season 1 is the weakest season, and season 2, while a huge improvement, was the second weakest.

After that it had nowhere to go but up, IMO.

The more it moved away from TNG, the better it got. It got better with the introduction of arc-based storytelling for sure...and it took another huge leap forward when they finally let Avery Brooks take Sisko in the direction he wanted to take him, instead of trying to force him into being the African-American version of Picard. The final thing they did that made the show better was to develop so many of the recurring characters to the extent they did. Dukat, Garak, Damar, Weyoun, Winn, and Martok had a huge hand in making that show what it was. Other recurring characters were also good...but those I listed made HUGE contributions.

Those three things, IMO, made all the difference.

I think you pretty much summed it up. But one more element? Yeah, most of you will roll your eyes. Romance!!! You had the Work/Dax thing going on. Then you had Sisko/Kassidy thing going on. And, the best, according to my wife, Odo/Kira. The greatest kiss of all time, Trek related, was that kiss between the two of them for all to see!!! That episode, HIS WAY, was a great episode that none of the other Treks could have done as good.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Mr. Fergy]

I think the 3rd season opener, when Ds9 first got the Defiant, was a point of change, when the episode "Explorers" first aired. I said to myself "This episode is brilliant when are TPTB going to promote Sisko". (This happened about 3 episodes later in the 3rd season finale) .

What is so funny is I was talking to Larry Nemechek. He confirmed, after I guessed that Sisko is being promoted, at the now defunct Thundercon in Oklahoma City, Ok.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I liked DS9 from the first episode. But it definitely improved as time went on and it moved away from the TNG formula of stand-alone, enemy-of-the-week, episodic TV.

IMO season 1 is the weakest season, and season 2, while a huge improvement, was the second weakest.

After that it had nowhere to go but up, IMO.

The more it moved away from TNG, the better it got. It got better with the introduction of arc-based storytelling for sure...and it took another huge leap forward when they finally let Avery Brooks take Sisko in the direction he wanted to take him, instead of trying to force him into being the African-American version of Picard. The final thing they did that made the show better was to develop so many of the recurring characters to the extent they did. Dukat, Garak, Damar, Weyoun, Winn, and Martok had a huge hand in making that show what it was. Other recurring characters were also good...but those I listed made HUGE contributions.

Those three things, IMO, made all the difference.

I think you pretty much summed up my love for DS9. I too, loved it from the first episode. In fact, I consider "Emissary" to be the best pilot episode for any Trek.

I truly, truly enjoyed DS9 all the way.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I liked DS9 from the first episode. But it definitely improved as time went on and it moved away from the TNG formula of stand-alone, enemy-of-the-week, episodic TV.

IMO season 1 is the weakest season, and season 2, while a huge improvement, was the second weakest.

After that it had nowhere to go but up, IMO.

The more it moved away from TNG, the better it got. It got better with the introduction of arc-based storytelling for sure...and it took another huge leap forward when they finally let Avery Brooks take Sisko in the direction he wanted to take him, instead of trying to force him into being the African-American version of Picard. The final thing they did that made the show better was to develop so many of the recurring characters to the extent they did. Dukat, Garak, Damar, Weyoun, Winn, and Martok had a huge hand in making that show what it was. Other recurring characters were also good...but those I listed made HUGE contributions.

Those three things, IMO, made all the difference.

I think you pretty much summed up my love for DS9. I too, loved it from the first episode. In fact, I consider "Emissary" to be the best pilot episode for any Trek.

I truly, truly enjoyed DS9 all the way.

And I agree with you. Emissary was very DEEP story, where as FARPOINT was..well..it was what it was. Who do we credit though? Berman? Did he write the pilot, or did Piller. Because if it was Berman, or if he was invovled, I have to give the guy credit.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I give Berman the credit for writing that episode, and for not becoming involved with the rest of the show.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I give Berman the credit for writing that episode, and for not becoming involved with the rest of the show.

Amen!

 

[Trekwatcher]

I am currently rewatching DS9 S1 and it is definitely hit or miss, although the hits are better than I remember them being. Some episodes such as "If Wishes were Horses," "Babel," "Move along home," and "Q-Less" are, IMHO, just dreadful and really have little to add to the show. That having been said, "Emissary," "Captive Pursuit," "Progress," and "Duet" (my all time favorite DS9 episode, hands down) are really first rate and help build the foundation for the show.

With the exception of TOS, all the series had the hardest time during their first season, so I expect it takes them a year or so to work out the kinks, figure out what works and what doesn't, and drop the dead weight.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

DS9 definitely got better as time went on. I think that the show finally hit its stride with the introduction of the Dominion and the Federation and Allies' response to that.

DS9 had a rocky start, some great episodes in the middle but I also think it had a rocky end. Odo and Kira had zero chemistry, the Nicole Dax entry might have been a shark jumping moment and the death of Sisko (or turning him into a wormhole God whatever way you interpret it) was a big letdown

 

[Ezri]

Nicole Dax, well Ezri Dax may not have been ideal they had really no choice. Anyway, Ezri Dax had to be different then Jadzia Dax. It would not have been fun if both Jadzia and Ezri were identical all the time

 

[Trekwatcher]

I think that Jadzia was less interesting than Ezri Dax. They wrote her, especially early on, as too wooden and stiff, and her cool demeanor did little to endear her to me. I, for one, felt that Ezri was a welcome addition to the cast.

 

[MyCylon]

I'd actually say DS9 hit the ground running with Emissary but fell way back after that. I think Emissary showed large parts of what DS9 was capable of doing and what would set it apart from TNG, in particular. It was intelligent, thought provoking, entertaining, and managed to introduce us to all the major players.
Although S1 did have some good episodes in between (e.g. Progress) it wasn't until the end of the season and then season 2 that things really started picking up. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, the farther the show got away from TNG, the better it got.
However, for me, the quality of Emissary wasn't reached again until The Visitor. S4 is also where I feel the show skyrocketed and just started playing on a level of its own.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

I actualy just watched this again for the first time in years a few days ago, found it by accident.

When I first saw it I hated the scenes with the prophets, but now I like them.

Although it had some good Bajor stories, DS9 didn't REALLY get going untill the final of season 2 and The Search I and II are still among my favourate episodes.
Not least because they introduce the Defiant, and I don't think it took away from the fact that it was a space station show, I'm talking about security.
When they discoverd the wormhole it became a major stratigeic location, and untill they realized there were bad guys on the OTHER side of it they didn't bother with much of a defence.

They really should have beefd up it's defences after the pilot.