DS9 Writers

[arch101]

After watching the 1st season of Space Battleship Yamato (as Star Blazers) in 1978 at the age of 10, I was forever after hooked on serialization. Which means that I was forever disappointed by show after show with self-contained 1hr programs until...DS9. I always felt that by the 80s and 90s, scifi fans were intelligent and sophisticated enough to follow serialized programs.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

The worst one was probably the one with Lwaxana Troi.

The worst one was that there were two Lwaxana Troi episodes. The only thing that could possibly have been worse was "Profit and Lace" (sex-changed Quark) with a Lwaxana Troi B-plot.


And I've heard that rendition before, that Voyager might have benefitted DS9 by taking the attention off DS9 in terms of the serialization issue and let all the anti-serialization people muck up Voyager, but I'm not sure that's true or not. A lot might be people mixing up the idea being tossed out there to make Season 4 serial (Year of Hell) and UPN opposing it. That sounded like something being in the very early planning stages that wouldn't have been too feasible (huge change in tone which might rock the boat for a show with declining ratings on a network with crap ratings to begin with, they already did change- brought on Seven, might want to see how that plays out). "Year of Hell" as it was told, could never have been made in the prime timeline. Far too much damage or permanent changes. That kind of very dark content was very niche back in the '90s, still is to an extent. Small themed arcs worked fine for Voyager, like passing through Hirogen space later in Season 4. The earlier issue with Season 2's continuity was the baby drama was such a stupid plotline and the Kazon weren't the most appealing villains. A guy with a giant sponge on his head wearing a kilt leading Hispanic gangs in space against Voyager passing near their turf with his girlfriend stealing sperm from Voyager's #2 for some kind of baby drama scheme... how is that supposed to be an enthralling arc? Transwarp salamander babies could at least illicit a laugh.


And Moore on Voyager... he's not really an accurate source. There was something going on behind the scenes with him in VOY Season 6. He was only on the show for a small stretch of episodes, and that stretch sucked (and his Klingon episode was horrible. If not for "Virtuoso" & "Life Line", it would've been the worst episode of the season). He was forced out. He might've been butting heads or creating a toxic atmosphere. Fall 1999 is not exactly a stellar time in Voyager's run, "Dragon's Teeth" aside (but even there, it was to be a 2-parter but never came to be, making Season 6 the only VOY season without a 2-parter and the Vaadwaur flopped as a planned recurring villain). There was a similar behind the scenes issue with Xena also in the Fall 1999 block of episodes. The duo that writes the Transformers movies (and Lost too??), Orci & Kurtzman, became executive producers, script supervisors, or something higher up beyond mere writers and their short run had most of the series' worst episodes, that they were forced out after 8 or 9 episodes.

 

[tighr]

And Moore on Voyager... he's not really an accurate source. There was something going on behind the scenes with him in VOY Season 6. He was only on the show for a small stretch of episodes, and that stretch sucked (and his Klingon episode was horrible. If not for "Virtuoso" & "Life Line", it would've been the worst episode of the season). He was forced out. He might've been butting heads or creating a toxic atmosphere.

I don't know whether he was forced out or quit on his own, but he only wrote one episode, and that was Survival Instinct. That episode turned out great. As far as Barge of the Dead, he only received writing credits on that episode for the story he came up with that was originally planned for DS9, and the screenplay was written by someone else on the staff. He says the plot went through several revisions after he submitted it. He doesn't even count it as one of "his" episodes.

 

[Seven of Five]

And I think Barge of the Dead was one of the best episodes that season!

Yeah, Moore only fully wrote Survival Instinct whilst he was on staff at VOY, which I enjoyed mostly. It has some silly tehnobabble in it that stops it being better though.

Was the problem with Moore on VOY to with him being under Braga, rather than allowing him to come on and shake things up in the ways he alluded to in his Cinescape interview? I mean back on TNG, he had been on staff a little longer than Braga, and held a slightly more senior title. The two wrote even together on occasion too, so maybe Moore not being able to work ascreatively as he had before really pissed him off?

 

[Sandoval]

"Listen very carefully, I will say this only once..."

 

[Relayer1]

"Listen very carefully, I will say this only once..."

Are you British or did they actually show 'Allo 'Allo in the States ?

Surely not...

 

[Sandoval]

Good moaning.

Yes I'm British you stupid woman!

 

[MacLeod]

Allo! Allo! was a great series.

Sorry but you score nul point for that. It should have been

I Shall Say this only once, Allo! Allo! was a great series.

Some beat me to the punch. But never mind

 

[Sandoval]

Oh, Rene!

 

[MacLeod]

Ah Saturday nights on dear old Auntie Beeb.

 

[Sandoval]

Never see the like of those days again...

 

[Seven of Five]

Oh I love Allo Allo!

We need an Allo Allo/DS9 crossover. Missed opportunity!

 

[Relayer1]

Oh I love Allo Allo!

We need an Allo Allo/DS9 crossover. Missed opportunity!

In which the Garak and Rene fall foul of Odo and Gendarme Crabtree whilst attempting to pass information to the Obsidian order in the copy of the Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies, with hilarious consequences !

The place is crawling with us Brits....

 

[DS9forever]

I think serialization has been taken too far now - it seems the events of True Blood all take place within a few weeks.

 

[Okona]

Wow... Season 4 of Voyager was really amazing. Especially the two parters. Scorpion, and Year of Hell. Then in Season 5 somebody got the brilliant idea to bring a child on board as a recurring guest star. Wtf... what were they thinking. Hello? This is a science fiction series not a soap opera for children.

 

[Seven of Five]

I used to hate Naomi too. The last time I rewatched the series though I was far more accomodating towards her. I like the reltionship she had with Seven, as they both had a similar childlike slant on humanity. As the only child on the ship, Naomi would latch onto someone like her, so I can see why they spent time together.

And that's coming from someone who feels ambivalent about VOY anyway.

(Also, Scorpion and Year of Hell were two of the series' high points. They're in my top 5.)

 

[Okona]

I always found the kids on TNG annoying as hell too. Nothing against kids, it just doesn't belong there. Just like Lwaxana Troi doesn't belong there either. Hmpf.

So what are the other three in your Top 5? I'm guessing the Borg invasion at Wolf 359?

 

[Paper Moon]

DSN started dropping hints in S1 more so during S2 run. re: The Dominion. In the case of DSN it started to get good around S3, and the later season where the culmination of the threads they had been building on.

Sorry to drag up a post from so long ago, but I was wondering what hints from Season 1 you are referring to, MacLeod? I can't really think of any of the top of my head (well, except for Vortex).

 

[tighr]

DSN started dropping hints in S1 more so during S2 run. re: The Dominion. In the case of DSN it started to get good around S3, and the later season where the culmination of the threads they had been building on.

Sorry to drag up a post from so long ago, but I was wondering what hints from Season 1 you are referring to, MacLeod? I can't really think of any of the top of my head (well, except for Vortex).

The only example I can think of is the Tosk, who are mentioned to have been bred. It can be inferred (but never stated in canon) that the same race who made the Tosk also made the Jem'Hadar for the Founders.

The name "Dominion" doesn't appear on screen until season 2, and its not clear when the writer's decided that a massive Federation-sized government was ultimately going to exist in the Gamma Quadrant.

 

[Paper Moon]

DSN started dropping hints in S1 more so during S2 run. re: The Dominion. In the case of DSN it started to get good around S3, and the later season where the culmination of the threads they had been building on.

Sorry to drag up a post from so long ago, but I was wondering what hints from Season 1 you are referring to, MacLeod? I can't really think of any of the top of my head (well, except for Vortex).

The only example I can think of is the Tosk, who are mentioned to have been bred. It can be inferred (but never stated in canon) that the same race who made the Tosk also made the Jem'Hadar for the Founders.

The name "Dominion" doesn't appear on screen until season 2, and its not clear when the writer's decided that a massive Federation-sized government was ultimately going to exist in the Gamma Quadrant.

Oh yeah, d'oh. I've had that thought re: Tosk before. Interesting parallels there, though I prefer to think that the Founders arranged the creation of the Jem'Hadar themselves. Though perhaps they have a side industry going, too: "Custom Made Genetically Engineered Individuals, can be yours for only 5 million bars of gold-pressed latinum [or whatever]".

Yeah, my understanding was that the writers decided sometime in the early second season to build up to a big end-of-season reveal about the Dominion, and that they started planted the seeds with "Rules of Acquisition," (purposefully doing it in a Ferengi episode so that people wouldn't take it seriously). But I hadn't heard of them thinking about it at all in the first season.

Of course, Odo's theory in Emissary that he may have come through the wormhole certainly looks like it could be foreshadowing...

I think I'm gonna start a thread to discuss all the things that were (or look in hindsight to be) hints at future things.