DS9/Voyager mirror crossover

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Are you saying that because Bashir calls him "Fontaine," that he doesn't carry the first name "Vic"?

Could be. In the regular universe, we don't know Felix's last name, after all.

I know I've stated this theory many times, but I'd just like to repeat it now. The way I see it, Felix of the regular universe is a Dilbert-like cubicle drone who created Vic as a way to live out his fantasies of being a 60's-era Vegas lounge singer. And as is normal for holo-programmers, Felix used his own physical appearance as a model for Vic.

In the mirror universe, on the other hand, Felix gets to be the badass warrior that his regular universe counterpart can only dream of being. Of course when Rom first meets the "mirror Fontaine", Rom immediately assumes it's Vic, but that's understandable since I'm just guessing that Rom has never met the regular universe Felix. Rom HAS, however, met his own universe's Vic (at least I'm guessing he has, as Vic is well known to the inhabitants of DS9), so that influences his judgment, as it were.

Now I hate to toot my own horn here, but let's be honest - what is more likely? A ragtag band of Terran rebels somehow managing to construct an android which looks, thinks and acts indistinguishable from a human being (Noonien Soong is, AFAIK, the only human in history who ever managed such a thing, and of course we never see the "mirror Soong" here)...or the mirror Fontaine simply being the counterpart of the programmer who created Vic?

Actually, I do remember reading that it was James Darren's idea to have there be a "mirror Fontaine" in the first place - he just wanted an excuse to be a fighter and charge into a scene with guns blazing. So I guess that's the end of it.

 

[Voth commando1]

Could be. In the regular universe, we don't know Felix's last name, after all.

I know I've stated this theory many times, but I'd just like to repeat it now. The way I see it, Felix of the regular universe is a Dilbert-like cubicle drone who created Vic as a way to live out his fantasies of being a 60's-era Vegas lounge singer. And as is normal for holo-programmers, Felix used his own physical appearance as a model for Vic.

In the mirror universe, on the other hand, Felix gets to be the badass warrior that his regular universe counterpart can only dream of being. Of course when Rom first meets the "mirror Fontaine", Rom immediately assumes it's Vic, but that's understandable since I'm just guessing that Rom has never met the regular universe Felix. Rom HAS, however, met the 'real' Vic, so that influences his judgment, as it were.

Now I hate to toot my own horn here, but let's be honest - what is more likely? A ragtag band of Terran rebels somehow managing to construct an android which looks, thinks and acts indistinguishable from a huma being...or the mirror Fontaine being the counterpart of the programmer who created Vic?

I'd have to rewatch TENC but when he was shot didn't it show him being mechanical on the inside?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

No. Based on what little we've seen of mirror Fontaine's death, there is absolutely no proof that he was an android. We don't see machine parts or anything like that. I think we do see smoke, but that's normal for any disruptor blast.

(Some people have claimed that there are "blinkenlights" in MU-Fontaine's corpse, but that's just reflections from other existing lighting in the scene. Not from the body itself.)

 

[somebuddyX]

I don't buy them ever planning a mirror universe crossover or any crossover episode to be honest. That period of time, things were all over the place. I remember how big a deal the Michael Jonas continuing storyline was or how experimental the 6 episode arc of DS9 Season 6 was. No way they knew what they were doing enough to have a proper crossover.

 

[Voth commando1]

Was it in the slightest ever possible for a crossover to occur? From say season 3 over Voyager to the end of DS9 or heck after that if the DS9 actors were interested?

 

[Kevman7987]

I don't buy them ever planning a mirror universe crossover or any crossover episode to be honest. That period of time, things were all over the place. I remember how big a deal the Michael Jonas continuing storyline was or how experimental the 6 episode arc of DS9 Season 6 was. No way they knew what they were doing enough to have a proper crossover.

Might that be why they never did go that way? They came up with the idea, realized it would be too difficult, and left the outline in the circular file?

 

[Prax]

I don't buy them ever planning a mirror universe crossover or any crossover episode to be honest. That period of time, things were all over the place. I remember how big a deal the Michael Jonas continuing storyline was or how experimental the 6 episode arc of DS9 Season 6 was. No way they knew what they were doing enough to have a proper crossover.

Why not? This would have came up sometime during season 2 of Voyager/Season 4 DS9. DS9 had already done 2 or 3 mirror episodes, and probably had more written. They also had Tuvok as a guest(as Tuvok) in a mirror episode. Surely they were interested in filming a mirror Voyager episode too. And of course we ended up with "Living Witness." A way for VOY to have a Mirror episode without needing to worry about DS9's MU continuity.

 

[B.J.]

13. “The Sentinel” - a prequel to “Threshold” with Cadet Paris in
Starfleet Academy. Several prominent Star Trek guest appearances are
planned.

..... why?

It's this one entry that makes me seriously doubt the authenticity of this list.

 

[Prax]

13. “The Sentinel” - a prequel to “Threshold” with Cadet Paris in
Starfleet Academy. Several prominent Star Trek guest appearances are
planned.

..... why?

It's this one entry that makes me seriously doubt the authenticity of this list.

All everyone remembers from Threshold is Lizard babies, but it was one of the early episodes to really flesh out Tom. Now in my mind there's already a prequel to Threshold. It's called "The First Duty." And there's also already a prequel to the ending of Threshold. It's called "Genesis."

The first half of Threshold is pretty decent, imo. The episode even won an EMMY Award.

 

[Cheapjack1]

Threshold's a really obvious allegory on the lack of legal and cultural legitimacy of the UK monarchy as a bunch of reptilians and the Independence of America as a world source and bulwark of human rights.

 

[Prax]

Threshold's a really obvious allegory on the lack of legal and cultural legitimacy of the UK monarchy and the Independence of America as a world source and bastion of human rights.

I had to read that twice. Did you just say "Murica!"?

 

[Cheapjack1]

I had to read that twice. Did you just say "Murica!"?

Hang on I'll come over there and read it aloud for you.

 

[somebuddyX]

Why not? This would have came up sometime during season 2 of Voyager/Season 4 DS9. DS9 had already done 2 or 3 mirror episodes, and probably had more written. They also had Tuvok as a guest(as Tuvok) in a mirror episode. Surely they were interested in filming a mirror Voyager episode too. And of course we ended up with "Living Witness." A way for VOY to have a Mirror episode without needing to worry about DS9's MU continuity.

Because both shows had their hands full trying to get out 26 episodes a season, because no crossover like that had ever been attempted in Trek let alone a mirror universe episode, because DS9 would have been in Season 6 focusing on it's Dominion War arc and from what they've said about how hard it was to write that first six episode arc I don't buy them trying something equally complicated as this, and I don't think the budget would allow all the cast members to appear anyway. In Birthright they visit DS9 and it's only Bashir who turns up, in Emissary Picard is the only regular to turn up. The only crossovers I buy that they might have thought about were a DS9/TNG crossover at the end of DS9 Season 1 and that they tried to get some TNG cast members to appear at Worf's wedding and that's because that stuff has actual citations.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The biggest logistical issue of a proper DS9/VGR crossover would have been the fact that VGR was on UPN and DS9 wasn't. A lot of markets might have been carrying one show but not the other; carrying both, but on different channels; showing them in a different order relevant to each other; etc.

 

[SPCTRE]

http://www.hack-man.com/

 

[The Wormhole]

The biggest logistical issue of a proper DS9/VGR crossover would have been the fact that VGR was on UPN and DS9 wasn't. A lot of markets might have been carrying one show but not the other; carrying both, but on different channels; showing them in a different order relevant to each other; etc.

Also, UPN was notoriously strict with Voyager when it came to continuing story arcs. I doubt they'd ever entertain an idea of a crossover with a show that didn't air on the network.

 

[Prax]

Because both shows had their hands full trying to get out 26 episodes a season, because no crossover like that had ever been attempted in Trek let alone a mirror universe episode, because DS9 would have been in Season 6 focusing on it's Dominion War arc and from what they've said about how hard it was to write that first six episode arc I don't buy them trying something equally complicated as this, and I don't think the budget would allow all the cast members to appear anyway. In Birthright they visit DS9 and it's only Bashir who turns up, in Emissary Picard is the only regular to turn up. The only crossovers I buy that they might have thought about were a DS9/TNG crossover at the end of DS9 Season 1 and that they tried to get some TNG cast members to appear at Worf's wedding and that's because that stuff has actual citations.

Umm Hello... It wasn't made...
That's not to discount that someone had the idea to do it. DS9 DID have voyager crossover episodes. Through The Looking Glass (Season 3)has been mentioned, and also Doctor Bashir, I Presume in mid Season 5. These both constitute crossover episodes. You mentioned Season 6 again. This would have been around season 4. And even though season 6 started with a "six part" story, it also had like 15-20 "one-off" episodes.
Like:
-Statistical Probabilities(Genetic Enhancement)
-The Magnificent Ferengi(Ferengi)
-Who Mourns for Mourn(Ferengi)
-Far Beyond the Stars(Reality Twist)
-Wrongs Darker Than..(Time Travel)
-His Way(Romance)
-Profit & Lace(Ferengi)
-Time's Orphan(Time Travel)
-The Sound of Her Voice(Time Travel)

 

[Tomalak]

I always thought it was a shame they never did a proper crossover episode in TNG's sixth season. Birthright was a dead end with only Bashir turning up. And part two is just rubbish. A boring Worf tale instead of something better.

I get the logistics would have been tricky, and they sort of did it in conceptual terms with the Maquis story building in DS9 and TNG, then carrying on to Voyager. Shame nothing more came of that.

 

[somebuddyX]

Umm Hello... It wasn't made...
That's not to discount that someone had the idea to do it. DS9 DID have voyager crossover episodes. Through The Looking Glass (Season 3)has been mentioned, and also Doctor Bashir, I Presume in mid Season 5. These both constitute crossover episodes. You mentioned Season 6 again. This would have been around season 4. And even though season 6 started with a "six part" story, it also had like 15-20 "one-off" episodes.
Like:
-Statistical Probabilities(Genetic Enhancement)
-The Magnificent Ferengi(Ferengi)
-Who Mourns for Mourn(Ferengi)
-Far Beyond the Stars(Reality Twist)
-Wrongs Darker Than..(Time Travel)
-His Way(Romance)
-Profit & Lace(Ferengi)
-Time's Orphan(Time Travel)
-The Sound of Her Voice(Time Travel)

Umm hello....I'm referring to the OPs idea that there was going to be some "unified" mirror universe crossover and I'm stating why I don't think this thing was even considered based on the circumstances at the time and the fact we've heard nothing of it in the past twenty years.

 

[Tomalak]

If it was considered, it was probably quickly abandoned because of the difficulty it would have been. A story that crossed from the Alpha to the Delta quadrants, but which would have had to have been two fairly standalone episodes if viewers hadn't seen the other one. If there isn't really going to be a main crossover or link, what's the point? Otherwise you're telling an incomplete story of which your viewers may only have seen one part.

The only way it might have worked was as a standalone TV movie, maybe for the thirtieth anniversary. But that would have been costly, and where would it have aired? UPN? And then we wouldn't have had the wonderful Trials and Tribble-ations, the best crossover Star Trek ever did.