DS9 ripping off B5?

[Angel4576]

DS9's great for what it is, but essentially it's just B5-lite. It's as far as they could go within the confines of the Star Trek umbrella. Fortunately, B5 had no such limitations, and consequently, was better.

The argument of who ripped off what from whom is an old one, and an argument that'll be had forever and a day. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter. People's positions on this are usually entrenched with very little scope for change.

 

[Neroon]

Do we really need to go through this crap again?

 

[Kegek]

Basically, this is academic. Whether or not DS9 plagiarised B5 is less important than this:

Was DS9 a good show?

Frankly, I think it was. I even think it's better; there was a stronger ensemble cast, and a solid writing staff. The music, though restrained by Berman, was stil a damn sight better than what B5 had to offer, as were costuming, makeup, and SFX. True, B5 had much better constructed arcs, but that's the only edge it contained.

B5 is a more groundbreaking show, a more experimental show (including with SFX, which DS9 eventually benefited from), certainly a more ambituous show, but when it came to results, DS9 was the better product.

 

[14thDoctor]

Neroon said:
Do we really need to go through this crap again?

You must be new.


No, DS9 did not "rip off" B5 by using the idea of a "big menace" or "story arc." Neither idea was especially new, and both ideas are fairly common in most any series.

One might as well argue that B5 ripped off TOS, because it takes place in space and features aliens.

 

[Neroon]

Trust me, I am far more the veteran of this battle than anyone here realizes.

There is plenty of evidence on either side to make it understandable why that side's proponents feel the way that they do. But it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Ezri]

B5 is B5 ... boring but it is B5

Will say the only rip off is Data's half wit brother B4.

There was this android called B4, he was turned into garbage.

There was this show called B5, it was turned into ....

 

[Angel4576]

Ezri said:
B5 is B5 ... boring but it is B5

Will say the only rip off is Data's half wit brother B4.

There was this android called B4, he was turned into garbage.

There was this show called B5, it was turned into ....

See, that's why DS9's so good. It appeals to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Lord Garth]

Now that I've seen the Alien Quarilogy set and have come across the story of how someone accused Ridley Scott and the makers of Alien of ripping off someone else's story (which was proven to not be the case), I have to wonder if the same isn't true about B5 and DS9.

Great minds think alike and unless someone was actually inside both writing rooms, who will ever know what's true?

I think during the first season of DS9 it was enough to just have the Gamma Quadrant as an uncharted frontier. During the second season, they wanted give the GQ a face, and a face with conflict, hence the Dominion. You can't really have a powerful enemy like the Dominion making waves without it stepping toes on TNG while it was still on, and it wouldn't be fair to people who watched TNG but didn't want to watch DS9, so it made sense that the Dominion wouldn't be completely uncorked and seen instead of just mentioned until TNG was completely out the way.

DS9 was more conductive to continuing storylines because the station was planted in one location. Stories about that location accumulate so, after a while, you can't not have continuing storylines.

 

[Jan]

Neroon said: But it doesn't matter anymore.

Hey! I said almost the exact same thing in the fourth post in this thread! You ripped me off!

Please...take it from a couple of veterans of this er...debate...there's little more pointless than rehashing ancient history. This is an SF forum, right? Just assume that they're paralell universes or something.

Jan

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Ezri said:
B5 is ok.

People think that B5 and DS9 are the same ... well they are not. Maybe they look to be the same ... now would you call food at the grocery store the same as the food in the garbage can? B5, trash day is Thursday

And Ezri, warning-for-trolling day is Sunday.

Meaning, today.

Please knock off the slams at B5 (and you made several in a few different posts), like, immediately, or future warning-for-trolling days will be any day upon which you persist in this sort of commentary.

Comments to PM.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Neroon said:
Do we really need to go through this crap again?

Answer: NO.

Not in the DS9 forum.

Guys...any further War Without End-related comments (and no, I do NOT mean the B5 episode...but the pointless and unprovable back-and-forth drama about who 'stole' from who, like TEN YEARS AGO) will cease immediately in this thread.



----------------------
EDIT: To remove comments related to the Niner's Unite thread. I'm on pain meds - sue me.

But the point above remains, and stands 100%.

We are not goin' down that road in this forum as the who-stole-from-who argument is pointless, unprovable, counter-productive, and leads to nothing by hard feelings on both sides. It's been had about a billion times on this board and not ONCE has it come out well.

If you want to have pleasant conversation about DS9 and B5, feel free. You can discuss and debate the different episodes and characters. But no more of this WWE stuff in this forum.

And that goes doubly true for when I'm NOT on pain meds.

Thanks.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Angel4576 said:

Ezri said:
B5 is B5 ... boring but it is B5

Will say the only rip off is Data's half wit brother B4.

There was this android called B4, he was turned into garbage.

There was this show called B5, it was turned into ....

See, that's why DS9's so good. It appeals to the lowest common denominator.

And as long as I'm giving out warnings for trolling, you have one also.

Further implications that DS9 appeals mainly to stupid people will not be tolerated any more than will be comments referring to B5 as trash.

Comments to PM.

 

[Kegek]

PKTrekGirl said:
This thread was NOT set up to discuss this topic, which both Neroon and I agree is extremely tiresome...not to mention counter-productive.

This thread was set up by me in a effort to foster peace between DS9 fans and B5 fans...and to encourage both groups to give the other show a chance...and come to appreciate the fact that this argument is only hurting US.

Uh, I think you may be thinking of Niners Unite... around Babylon 5. This thread, rather unambiguously titled DS9 ripping off B5? was started by Hodge with the following question:

Hodge said:
I am watching Babylon 5 for the first time and I just finished season 4. This is a terrific show with a lot (a lot!) of similarities to DS9. I remember that DS9 didn't start developing a story arc until the end of season 2. Was this in reaction to the success of Babylon 5?

As tired, stale, and ultimately redundant this argument is, it's clearly the intention of the thread.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Kegek said:

PKTrekGirl said:
This thread was NOT set up to discuss this topic, which both Neroon and I agree is extremely tiresome...not to mention counter-productive.

This thread was set up by me in a effort to foster peace between DS9 fans and B5 fans...and to encourage both groups to give the other show a chance...and come to appreciate the fact that this argument is only hurting US.

Uh, I think you may be thinking of Niners Unite... around Babylon 5. This thread, rather unambiguously titled DS9 ripping off B5? was started by Hodge with the following question:

Hodge said:
I am watching Babylon 5 for the first time and I just finished season 4. This is a terrific show with a lot (a lot!) of similarities to DS9. I remember that DS9 didn't start developing a story arc until the end of season 2. Was this in reaction to the success of Babylon 5?

As tired, stale, and ultimately redundant this argument is, it's clearly the intention of the thread.

Well, I followed the link from email as I am home sick and am on some serious drugs.

But the point remains, doesn't it?

The War Without End will NOT be tolerated in this forum.

You wanna compare and contrast the shows in a positive manner, knock yourself out. But any of this who-stole-from who stuff, or nasty slams at either show OR it's fans will not be tolerated.

Got it?

 

[number6]

When someone titles a thread "DS9 ripping of B5" on a DS9 forum, how do expect people who are fans of DS9 to reply, especially if they didn't like B5?

I didn't like B5. This is a DS9 forum. Why shouldn't I be able to express my opinions about B5 here, especially in the context of the topic being discussed here? Plenty of people who hate Star Trek in all its forms post here all the time, yet you choose to warn people who hate B5?? That makes very little sense in a DS9 forum.

Just sayin...

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Yes, screw this thread. However,

Kegek said:
makeup

I thought B5 was a little bit more creative when it came to showing non-regular alien species. DS9's Jem'Hadar and Founders look great, but aside from some cool-looking background aliens such as Morn, B5 kept a higher standard for aliens. They even did some CGI fellows, which was pretty rare on tv at that time.

 

[Kegek]

Dane_Whitman said:
I thought B5 was a little bit more creative when it came to showing non-regular alien species.

This is a good case of B5 often showing more inventiveness, but the execution being less convincing. B5's principal aliens - Minbari, Narn - look pretty good, even if it isn't as slick a job as their DS9 counterparts. The quality of B5's makeup did evolve over time, though - Mira Furlan looks better in Minbari makeup in "In the Beginning" when compared to the first season.

It's when one compares aliens of the week - or background aliens - this is where DS9's superiority becomes evident. DS9 certainly had some questionable designs here (Dosi, anyone?) but considerably less than B5.

Not to mention I think the major aliens about as good; the Cardassians in particular are the equal of any of B5's designs.

All that said... Farscape could have either show for breakfast when it comes to alien looks.

PKTrekGirl said:
Well, I followed the link from email as I am home sick and am on some serious drugs.

Sorry to hear that, hope you get better.

 

[number6]

I always thought the aliens looked pretty cool. The CGI never looked that great.

If the writing were a fraction as good as the makeup, I may have liked the show better.

 

[Angel4576]

Kegek said:
All that said... Farscape could have either show for breakfast when it comes to alien looks.

Personally, I always felt that Firefly had the most realistic alien look......

 

[Neroon]

Kegek said:
All that said... Farscape could have either show for breakfast when it comes to alien looks.

As heretical as this may sound coming from me ... I agree completely on this specific point.