DS9 Remaster through AI machine learning

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Cap.T, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Cap.T

    Cap.T Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    There is a guy on Reddit who has tried upconverting some episodes from the DVD versions trough AI machine learning. He posted some clips on YouTube. Keep in mind that YouTube compresses these heavily:

    Intro:


    Battle form "Sarcifice of Angles":


    He also tried it on Voyager. You can read about it here.
    There is also a link to a longer sequence that one can download in uncompressed 3840x2160 resolution and watch on a 4K TV. Eventhough it's obviously not anywhere near the TNG-Remaster, it still looks pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  2. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    I haven't seen the full clip but so far It looks good
     
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  3. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope.

    Watching full screen on a 2.5k monitor, the SD source shines right through the technical trickery. The edge enhancement is still unable to add actual detail within elements. At least for Odo, I'd expect it since he's simulating a shape and not quite as perfectly as other Changelings who do it as a favor for the humans... But also forgetting the quilting on the uniforms of Dax and O'Brien that should be consistently visible (and in natively crisper detail) but clearly aren't despite being close enough to the camera, even crows' feet and face wrinkles on Odo's face don't begin to have the definition that a proper remastering -- there's the flicker and jaggies obscuring the actual detail, which would be consistent between frames.

    Remember, one can always downscale from larger density materials but once removed, adding detail back isn't going to happen, for motion video though I'd seen a couple static photos that showed some promise, despite being obvious paint-by-numbers affairs. But I digress. Even Photoshop with its tools that can remove background objects still requires a lot of manual work - for even just one frame - to make the finished result look adequate. Never mind 24 frames per second... 60 seconds per minute... 43 minutes per episode...

    The ships too have that bizarre fuzziness that just scream "HI THERE, I'M SD! COOIE!" that start to look more detailed once the video playback window is reduced in size. If you enlarge it and it starts to look fuzzy and/or jaggied, it's not true HD because you're still displaying it above its original resolution.

    It's still nothing more than edge enhancement trickery largely via contrast and unsharp masking and slightly augmented/shifted color gamut (NTSC is mocked with its other acronym, "never the same color"...).
     
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  4. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    Also, both DS9 and Voyager were edited on D2 NTSC composite videotape. So you’ve got NTSC Composite artifacts as well. Really, the DVD’s are closer in quality to the Laserdisc releases if you sent the Laserdiscs composite video through a 3-D comb filter circa 2003. So that guy is just upconverting NTSC Composite video to 4K Component video. In 2020, the best method for watching DS9 & Voyager in 4K is to pop the DVD’s into a PS4 or Xbox One and let them upscale the DVD to 4K.
     
  5. JamesRye

    JamesRye Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It looks a lot better to me.
     
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  6. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    That battle scene from Sacrifice of Angels looks terrible, especially when you've watched it on the What We Left Behind Blu-Ray that got the original 1990's CGI and re-rendered it to at least 1080p (might've been higher, as it was shown on theater screens when the documentary was in theaters).
     
  7. RedAlert

    RedAlert Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well... I like it!
    Despite the technical blah blah ... it is better to none.

     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  8. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Your Savage Overlord Moderator

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    I'd like to see this process used on the same footage that was remastered for the documentary. It would be interesting to compare the two side-by-side.
     
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  9. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That looks extremely marginal.

    I think we're a good few years off AI being able to do anything approximating the TNG remaster.
     
  10. Michael

    Michael In alignment with canon Moderator

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    Honestly, this looks pretty impressive to me. Not as good as an actual high definition remastering, but still it reads as better image quality and more detail to my eyes. Kind of amazing what AIs are able to do nowadays.

    Yes, I'd like to see that comparison as well!

    By the way, did we ever learn where exactly these HD re-renderings came from and why, how and for what they were produced …

    Because, damn, they look so good! :drool: