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Spoilers DS9: Force and Motion by Jeffrey Lang Review Thread

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Got mine today!

I considered holding off reading this until after finishing Ascendance -- I'm only between Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn in my overall Treklit reading order -- but a new Jeffrey Lang novel is too tempting to resist reading for that long.

If I spoil myself on details coming up in my Treklit reading, so be it. A Jeffrey Lang Trek novel is always worth it. :)
 
Sto-Vo-Kory said:
Got mine today!

I considered holding off reading this until after finishing Ascendance -- I'm only between Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn in my overall Treklit reading order -- but a new Jeffrey Lang novel is too tempting to resist reading for that long.

If I spoil myself on details coming up in my Treklit reading, so be it. A Jeffrey Lang Trek novel is always worth it. :)
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1. I don't think F&M spoils anything from Ascendance.

2. And thanks!

Jeff
 
Idran said:
Yeah, DS9 had a reference to it as eight years ago in "Tribunal", which'd put it at 2362. The 2347 reference is from trying to work out O'Brien's service history: he joined Starfleet in 2345 at age 17 according to "Shadowplay" (or 2350 according to "Rules of Engagement"), we know the Rutledge was one of his first assignments, and according to "Paradise" it was Setlik III that got him moved from crewman to tactical officer there. And he's had at least a half-dozen or so according to "Broken Link", so it can't be that he was crewman on the Rutledge for ages until then and transferred to the Ent-D after a couple years at tactical there.

Basically 2362 doesn't work with O'Brien's overall service history and where Setlik III worked in, but 2347/early 2350s doesn't work for the specific date given in "Tribunal", so it's up to whichever feels better individually. There's pros and cons for either.
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I wasn't that familiar with the dialogue from "Tribunal", but I took a look at Chrissie's Transcript Site just now, and it *seems* to be saying that Boone was replaced eight years ago after being taken prisoner at Setlik III. So if he was held in captivity for *years*, an earlier date could still work? Of course, if we assume that it was original Boone who got married (as seems to be implied), then Setlik III could have taken place no earlier than 2347, since Boone had been married for "almost fifteen years", and he left his wife eight years ago. The only potential glitch that I see is that Bashir says that Boone's problems started eight years ago, "shortly after Setlik III", but I suppose that could be verbal shorthand for "captivity after being taken prisoner at Setlik III".

Assuming I haven't missed something, of course, which is always a possibility.

FWIW, Force and Motion has a section that is implied to be fairly recently after the attack, and it takes place 38 years before the main story, or 2348. (Or I guess possibly also 2347, since the main story takes place on January 9 and 10.)
 
As in he was held in captivity for years, killed in 2362, replaced, and released? That's technically possible, I guess, but the dialog about his wife would be weird with that. Since he was married in around 2347, if Setlik III was soon after that and he was held in Cardassian prison until 2362 with no contact with the outside world until (seemingly) being released, then while he was technically married for fifteen years it would be strange to describe it simply as that with no added context, rather than "she waited for you for fifteen years" or something more in that vein. Especially since the length of his marriage was mentioned as a reason for why leaving his wife was strange, so the connotation is that they'd been together all that time.

I think if you want to have the earlier Setlik III date, you really just have to ignore the dating in "Tribunal". Which is perfectly valid a choice, of course.

As for the book itself, I thought it was great. The treatment of Maxwell was amazingly nuanced, and exactly what I was hoping to see when I first heard of the concept. While everything on the Hooke was also really enjoyable, the examination of Maxwell as a person was so well done that I honestly could have read a novel-length purely character piece of him with no driving action at all.
 
Idran said:
As in he was held in captivity for years, killed in 2362, replaced, and released? That's technically possible, I guess, but the dialog about his wife would be weird with that. Since he was married in around 2347, if Setlik III was soon after that and he was held in Cardassian prison until 2362 with no contact with the outside world until (seemingly) being released, then while he was technically married for fifteen years it would be strange to describe it simply as that with no added context, rather than "she waited for you for fifteen years" or something more in that vein. Especially since the length of his marriage was mentioned as a reason for why leaving his wife was strange, so the connotation is that they'd been together all that time.

I think if you want to have the earlier Setlik III date, you really just have to ignore the dating in "Tribunal". Which is perfectly valid a choice, of course.

As for the book itself, I thought it was great. The treatment of Maxwell was amazingly nuanced, and exactly what I was hoping to see when I first heard of the concept. While everything on the Hooke was also really enjoyable, the examination of Maxwell as a person was so well done that I honestly could have read a novel-length purely character piece of him with no driving action at all.
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I love broken people. So this book was rather perfect in that regard with Maxwell.
Its interesting seeing Nog still dealing with the events of The Fall as well as one of my main complaints after Destiny was how seemingly quickly the characters recovered from the enormous loss. So that's all good.

Also enjoyed more of what I'm just calling 'new things' in the book - like the arachnoforms. They were great little characters. Makes me wonder where such genetics work might end up a few decades down the road.
 
Serin117 said:
...as one of my main complaints after Destiny was how seemingly quickly the characters recovered from the enormous loss.
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Quickly? We did four entire novels exploring the lengthy recovery process the characters went through in the wake of Destiny -- a sequence that we referred to informally as "Cleaning Up Mack's Mess." There was one for the TNG crew (Losing the Peace), one for the Aventine (A Singular Destiny), one for Voyager (Full Circle), and one for Titan (Over a Torrent Sea). The first three of those all covered a span of slightly over two months following the end of Destiny (indeed, all ended within days of each other), and the bulk of OaTS took place four to five months after Destiny, with the characters still struggling with its emotional impact. And the personal and political ramifications of Destiny have continued to resonate through the novels ever since.
 
Christopher said:
Quickly? We did four entire novels exploring the lengthy recovery process the characters went through in the wake of Destiny -- a sequence that we referred to informally as "Cleaning Up Mack's Mess." There was one for the TNG crew (Losing the Peace), one for the Aventine (A Singular Destiny), one for Voyager (Full Circle), and one for Titan (Over a Torrent Sea). The first three of those all covered a span of slightly over two months following the end of Destiny (indeed, all ended within days of each other), and the bulk of OaTS took place four to five months after Destiny, with the characters still struggling with its emotional impact. And the personal and political ramifications of Destiny have continued to resonate through the novels ever since.
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Might have just been me being weird, but I did feel like it was a fairly quick. Perhaps due to the fact that I read it all in short succession...
 
Idran said:
As in he was held in captivity for years, killed in 2362, replaced, and released? That's technically possible, I guess, but the dialog about his wife would be weird with that. Since he was married in around 2347, if Setlik III was soon after that and he was held in Cardassian prison until 2362 with no contact with the outside world until (seemingly) being released, then while he was technically married for fifteen years it would be strange to describe it simply as that with no added context, rather than "she waited for you for fifteen years" or something more in that vein. Especially since the length of his marriage was mentioned as a reason for why leaving his wife was strange, so the connotation is that they'd been together all that time.

I think if you want to have the earlier Setlik III date, you really just have to ignore the dating in "Tribunal". Which is perfectly valid a choice, of course.
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Yeah, it's not perfect; I was just trying to reconcile the different references. And we know from other examples that Cardassians don't have a problem keeping their prisoners of war in captivity for years.

Another possibility is that the "Setlik III Massacre" occurred in 2347, but Starfleet fought a later action there that resulted in Boone's capture. It seems likely that if Setlik was in disputed space, things could happen there more than once over the course of the conflict.
 
Serin117 said:
Christopher said:
Quickly? We did four entire novels exploring the lengthy recovery process the characters went through in the wake of Destiny -- a sequence that we referred to informally as "Cleaning Up Mack's Mess." There was one for the TNG crew (Losing the Peace), one for the Aventine (A Singular Destiny), one for Voyager (Full Circle), and one for Titan (Over a Torrent Sea). The first three of those all covered a span of slightly over two months following the end of Destiny (indeed, all ended within days of each other), and the bulk of OaTS took place four to five months after Destiny, with the characters still struggling with its emotional impact. And the personal and political ramifications of Destiny have continued to resonate through the novels ever since.
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Might have just been me being weird, but I did feel like it was a fairly quick. Perhaps due to the fact that I read it all in short succession...
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They all came out soon after Destiny, of course, so did feel quick perhaps. And the big jumps in time in subsequent novels and the appearance of new 'big' events like Typhon Pact (with its own socio-economic focus), Cold Equations and The Fall maybe overwrote the raw impact of Destiny on the characters with new threats (even if sometimes this was continuous). Really Destiny was 7 years ago, and it does feel forgotten, even if it shouldn't and gets call backs every so often - because so much has happened also 'in-world' since 2381. Heck I'd say The Fall needs more follow up to - the president was assassinated and the state nearly became a pseudo-fascist federation and Andor came back and Cardassia is in a state of massive change etc - and it doesn't quite feel like it has yet. And it's been 2 1/2 years since it was published. Maybe DRG has done some of this, but in a very minute, tight-band focus. The 24th century has felt so ... stuck, after years of jumping ahead and not doing in-depth ramifications of a huge event (in the way there was so much dedicated essentially to the ramifications of the Dominion War through the DS9R, the entry of Bajor, the Trill thing, etc), even if it isn't & individual authors are doing these writings.

But arguably, to return to the original point, The Fall followed on Destiny by presenting a militarised Starfleet conditioning in a post-63 billion dead world. More so, Kirsten's Voyager novels continue to deal with the ramifications of Destiny, in part because of their lack of big time jumps. It's still so raw, and showing in great detail the impact of that loss and the feeling of tremendous vulnerability amongst so many characters after such a trauma.
 
Nice, touch, tying into . . .
. . . O'Brien's issues with spiders. But I thought he'd gotten over that, and kept a pet tarantula, during his time aboard 1701-D.
It was kind of a slow starter. I'm now about 1/4 into it, and find the mix of humor and pathos interesting.
 
I finished Force and Motion today and I'm wondering why I haven't read more by Jeffrey Lang!? This is a lovely book. I found the writing style to be personable (if that makes sense) and realistic, in that I thought the ways that O'Brien, Nog, Maxwell and the others acted, talked and thought made them feel like real people rather than characters on a page. I liked all the flashbacks and how they tied into the main story, and I loved the unusual touches:
giant robot legs, stinky dogs, shrink rays, and Charlotte's Web! Plus it's nice not to have an antagonistic Romulan, and no evil villain with galaxy-destroying intentions.
Right. I'd better get to rereading Dead Man's Hand and Mirror Eyes before I look for Immortal Coil and The Light Fantastic in the bookshop.
 
If you're interested in more books by Jeffrey Lang and you like Klingons you should check out the Left Hand of Destiny 2 parter, which he co-wrote with Martok actor J.G. Hertzler. It deals with Worf, Martok, Dax and Klingon politics in between the DS9 TV finale and Avatar.
 
I liked the little nod to Trinity, now if Temple Bar or St James gate had been mentioned, that would have been brilliant. As for O'Brien, I took him more of a Smithwicks drinker given he likes a nice ale.
 
I enjoyed this book, although not as much as I thought I would - I admit DS9 wasn't my favorite series, so maybe it's just that I couldn't get as invested in this story as, say, one of the DTI, Voyager relaunch, or Rise of the Federation books.

Also, out of curiosity, just what rank does Chief O'Brien hold? When we last saw him in the DS9 finale, he was a Senior Chief Petty Officer; since 10-11 years (in universe) have passed and he is now Chief Engineer of the new Deep Space 9 station, did he ever get his promotion to Master Chief, or is he still a Senior Chief?
 
It is a very clever novel, the "flashbacks" are effectively written.

I noticed an Alamo mention, I thought it a reference to the SNW story "The Best Defense..."?
 
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