DS9 Episodes- Silly Mistakes, NitPicks, Inaccuracies

[snakespeare]

So... a needle pulling thread?

The characters are all based on real people. For instance, Harlan Ellison. The names have been changed as is standard in fiction, but Willie Hawkins is definitely Willie Mays.

 

[DevilEyes]

So... a needle pulling thread?

The characters are all based on real people. For instance, Harlan Ellison. The names have been changed as is standard in fiction, but Willie Hawkins is definitely Willie Mays.

Where's the mistake or inconsistency? The characters don't have to be 100% same as the people they were based on.

 

[snakespeare]

I agree. I actually don't like this thread. I was only playing along.

But since you ask: Capt. Sisko is a Willie Mays fan. Jake bought him a baseball card of Willie Mays... http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Willie_Mays and also http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Willie_Hawkins

Armin Shimmerman's character is based on Harlan Ellison. Colm Meaney's character is based on Isaac Asimov. Nana Visitor's character is based on Kay Eaton. Need I go on?

The inconsistency is, Willie Mays fought in the Korean War that year. Thanks.

 

[Nightdiamond]

It was in Federation military interests to keep the Depata Council going for as long as possible (possibly with a view to subsuming... sorry, offering Cardassia membership of the Federation at some point).

That was Eddington's conclusion too.

One thing I've seen is whenever the Federation's safety is severely threatened, it is then they want others to abandon any policy they have and help.

When the Prophets told Sisko that corporeal matters didn't concern them, they were basically telling Sisko they had their own 'non interference' policy.

However, Sisko objects and strongly pleads with them to interfere anyway.

The Romulans refused to help the Federation and remained neutral. Ds9's crew members start to complain about how the Romulans refuse to help, because it isn't "their war".

Eventually Sisko can't take it any longer, and tricks them into war, with Starfleet's full blessing.

The thing with it's only one planet argument is, that in the case of Bajor, that small system ended up being the most important system in the quadrant at one point.

Besides having the only stable wormhole known to exist, it was a major key during the war.

The Bajorans at least seemed to always be ready to side with the Federation, whatever the odds against them.

I'm no expert at all in this area, but are those types of politics wise?

Lets face it, the Cardassians seemed to put up less of fight against joining the Dominion than anyone else did.

According to Damar's friend Rusot, it seemed like many of the population celebrated;

I remember the day I heard the
news that Cardassia had joined the Dominion...

Like everyone else, I rejoiced. We were going to
be rulers of the Alpha Quadrant.

I still understand the argument though, the Klingons
were going to re establish their imperal empire, and that's the last
thing the Federation would have wanted, especially with the Dominion waiting for it to happen.

 

[DevilEyes]

It was in Federation military interests to keep the Depata Council going for as long as possible (possibly with a view to subsuming... sorry, offering Cardassia membership of the Federation at some point).

That was Eddington's conclusion too.

One thing I've seen is whenever the Federation's safety is severely threatened, it is then they want others to abandon any policy they have and help.

When the Prophets told Sisko that corporeal matters didn't concern them, they were basically telling Sisko they had their own 'non interference' policy.

However, Sisko objects and strongly pleads with them to interfere anyway.

The Romulans refused to help the Federation and remained neutral. Ds9's crew members start to complain about how the Romulans refuse to help, because it isn't "their war".

Eventually Sisko can't take it any longer, and tricks them into war, with Starfleet's full blessing.

Bingo. The Federation non-interference policy is quite hypocritical.

The thing with it's only one planet argument is, that in the case of Bajor, that small system ended up being the most important system in the quadrant at one point.

Besides having the only stable wormhole known to exist, it was a major key during the war.

I'm not following you. Nobody had any idea that this would be the case, before the discovery of the wormhole. So what does that have to do with Federation's non-interference with the Cardassian occupation of Bajor?

 

[Nightdiamond]

That's exactly the point; nobody knew about the wormhole - so Bajor was just considered another minor planet with little consequences to the big picture.

Later, they did discover the wormhole, and then Bajor and DS9 became very important, commerce wise and later, strategic wise.

It can go along the lines of, if there is a horrible injustice going on, should you just let it be, because you're not involved and the stakes aren't high, or take the attitude that all life or societies are valuable and take a stand...,


9of course, you're going use common sense and take a good look at the society first buttt)..

The policy of it's only a small planet or government, if it's brutally occupied it's not as important, can backfire when you're not careful with that philosophy.

You never know when you might be heading toward that same area..

The Federation sided with the Cardassians, gave them aid, on the other hand, it still backfired.

 

[snakespeare]

I think you guys are missing the point that DS9 is intentionally darker than TNG or TOS. Things aren't so absolute anymore. Are Ferngi the bad guys they were shown to be in TNG? No. They have rules of Aquisition which is their own code of conduct, and therefore are honorable. Cardassians owe a duty to the state and that is why Garak is a better Cardassian than Dukat, who often puts his personal goals before the state. Klingons were colorful before DS9, with maybe some weird politics, but in DS9, they are treated with respect through the vehicle of a Trill who was the embassador of the Kittimer Accords.

Sisko does things that Picard would never do. He destroyed the atmosphere of a planet to make it unacceptable to humans and drive off the Maquis.

Things just aren't all good guys versus bad guys. And Section 31 is the best example I can give.

Or maybe I am misreading what you guys are saying? You seem surprised by these things, when it was the stated intention of the producers and writers to make a darker version of Trek.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ I don't even think it's really a darker version of Trek... just one where main characters act more realistically, and where even the Humans (shock! horror!) actually act like humans do in real life.

Sisko did some very morally questionable things, but so did Picard, only for different reasons - e.g. when he argued against helping the Boraalans in "Homeward". So, Picard does a morally objectionable thing (IMO) in the name of sticking to the rules and regulations that he seems to perceive as moral absolute, while Sisko does a morally objectionable thing out of pragmaticism, to achieve an important goal... Guess which I find both more understandable, and less stupid?

In DS9, you don't get Prime Directive evoked all the time and used as an excuse to do nothing. Which is probably one of the reasons why DS9 is my favorite Trek. Just imagine if Sisko mentioned the PD every time when there was a decision to be made? Fortunately, he is really not Picard. Or if Bashir, instead of trying to cure the sick, be it the people in "Quickening" or the Jem'Hadar in "Hippocratic Oath", was coming up with far-fetched "evolutional" theories and predictions for the future in order to justify why he wouldn't try to help them?

For the record, I think that Sisko would have been in favor of helping Bajor during the Cardassian occupation, if it had been up to him. So this is not an inconsistency, since it never was up to him. As for the admiralty and the Federation authorities... chalk it up to hypocrisy and politics.

 

[ALF]

The Federation authorities are almost never portrayed in a positive light in Trek. DS9 is no exception.

 

[Nightdiamond]

All points taken, and make sense.

But the main argument is, is how consistent the Federation is with the Prime Directive.

And would it really ignore the destruction of another innocent culture because it is considered less important, but, when its own survival is threatened, it has no problem interfering in another culture's affairs, if it will save its own??


This was bought up in T.N.G;

KEEVE: Don't misunderstand. I for one believe the raid on the Federation outpost was poor judgment. You are innocent bystanders, and I cannot condone violence against those who are not our enemies.

PICARD:Then I don't understand why you are unwilling...

KEEVE :Because you are innocent bystanders.

You were innocent bystanders for decades as the Cardassians took
our homes... as they violated and tortured our people in the most
hideous ways imaginable... as we were forced to flee...

PICARD;We were saddened by those events... but they occurred within
the designated borders of the Cardassian Empire...

KEEVE: and the Federation is pledged not to interfere in the internal
affairs of others.

How convenient it must be for you. To turn a deaf ear to those who
suffer behind a line on a map.

PICARD:I'm not here to debate Federation policy. I am prepared to
offer assistance...

So Picard quickly deflects the argument away, but on the other hand, he is offering action - helping the people, which he did.

It's a tough concept to discuss....

But when you hear about what the Cardassians did to the Bajorans, you have to sympathize with that viewpoint.

Ok, so we hear how if an event occurs within another culture's borders, then the Federation cannot/will not interfere.

Technically, the invasion of Cardassia by the Klingons was between Cardassia and the Klingons, and occured within Cardassia's borders.

That is when Starfleet allows Sisko to enter into the conflict, and rescue the Detapa Council, even if it starts a war with the Klingons.

Later they send aid and industrial equipment.

When the war started going very badly for the Federation, they allowed Sisko to manufacture false evidence in order to trick the Romulans into the war with their full blessing.

It can be argued that interfering with another culture's non aggression pact is a huge violation of the Prime Directive.

When they put Sisko out there, he realized you couldn't get things done or save lives unless you break the Prime Directive, or come close to it.